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[KevinPeters]

What is stopping Mike and Barron from publishing game themselves? To clarify, must they have a company themselves to get the ball rolling?

Very odd.....

[Antigoth]

What is stopping Mike and Barron from publishing game themselves? To clarify, must they have a company themselves to get the ball rolling?

Very odd.....

Kevin,

Mike and Barron are two dudes, just like you and I are. They just happened to come up with a game engine, that fit with a licence that a company just happened to have.

They could take the Raw Deal engine and create a fictional world to apply it to, but we see how well that worked for Decipher.

Then there's the whole challenge of getting it published. Forgive me for making an assumption, but neither you nor I have the contacts / financial resources to be able to pay for a CCG expansion to be released. So, while Barron and Mike have been developing Raw Deal, I don't see them having gobs of cash to be able to go out and publish this independently. Keep in mind, after publishing, then there's the distribution, marketing, the whole kit and caboodle.

[Tenshigure]

Dammit Mike, you've always had my respect and this is just adding to it. I don't know how in the heck you became friends with someone as arrogant and loudmouthed as Barron (sorry those handful who don't believe it, it's true), but you've always had class when it comes to any responses to the community as far as we're concerned.

I do wish them the best of luck, and do hope that in the very least that the engine is moved to another CCG, as it would be wrong for it not to. Let's keep this ball rolling guys, it's the least we can do.

[gkoa]

I asked this elsewhere and was first misunderstood and then told to repost here as they had already been answered...except I have looked and they relaly haven't...

As far as this RDPC =

How are people being evaluated to go on?
Who is making that evaluation?
What are the qualifications?
When is a full roster going to be established?
Are they only coming from TCO?
No offense, but shouldn't an idea like this be announced everywhere (including the various Yahoo groups) be done to try and get as wide a group of possible people as can be found?

To use the excuse that "well, the main yahoo group is dead" doesn't cut it.  It still has a larger membership number than anyone else, and you wouldn't have to reference TCO...just provide an email for people to contact.

Also, has anyone ran through the Yahoo directory looking for Regional Raw Deal lists and contact them?

There were numerous flaws in the current system...who is to say that not using an old NWA-style territory system might not be better?  Have a basic set of over rules, but then each Territory runs a lot itself.

Have your RDPC be called Board of Player Directors you make overall decisions, like where the next championship run will be held, championships for regions, if titles become vacant, etc.

This would ensure more voices being ACTIVELY heard and more contribution.  Also it would prevent the narrow domination by one or two groups of players as we have seen in the past in Raw Deal and in other games.
[For Highlander players I remind you of Sager & the KC crew]

Adam

[Big Bear]

i will offer services in an advisory capacity to anyone who needs it, especially for those working on a banned list.

[CreedP]

Well, this comes as a surprise to no one, but I'm in.  Not just as a Rules Manager (a job that gets amazingly easy when no new cards are made, heh), but to help with virtual card development and testing.  I spent several years working to understand the game's design on a fundamental level, it would be shameful to let that go to waste.  :j

CREED
Just now back from a mini-vacation in Dallas...

[Tenshigure]

I asked this elsewhere and was first misunderstood and then told to repost here as they had already been answered...except I have looked and they relaly haven't...

As far as this RDPC =

How are people being evaluated to go on?

As far as who should be warranted to join the RDPC, IMHO it should be those who show initiative to be productive in the progression of the game. That's not to say that you couldn't have had doubts of any other genre (ie badmouthing Revo), but if you have something to bring to the table better than anyone else, they should be able to jump up and take initiative.

Naturally, the nomination of people to the PC as far as a decision-making position should be agreed upon by the vast majority of the existing RD community that is sticking around. Forgive me since I don't frequent the Yahoo! boards or other sites such as SQC or PCG (hard enough to keep up with one fansite), but nevertheless a vocal majority do frequent these other boards to ensure such decisions are understood.

One thing I can be assured of though is the majority of players who seem to be creeping forward to take said positions are from all over the place, so I don't see how one play venue is going to benefit from others.

Who is making that evaluation?
What are the qualifications?

I think the basic consensus was 'anyone who doesn't disagree with an decision that is made'. There isn't an exact evaluation out there, it honestly seems natural that a lot of these positions being filled out are by those who had already done to a lesser extent leadership-based roles in the community prior to CI's shutdown of the game.

For example, there's hardly anyone who would disagree that Creed being Rules Manager makes sense. Playtest positions should be optimally filled by individuals who had previous playtesting experience during the game as well.

Personally, I feel the 'qualifications' of an individual is experience and the desire to go above and beyond what others would do (just like any other committee). If people are unsatisfied with the performance of someone, they can be replaced just like forum moderators and administrators who abuse their power, simple as that.

When is a full roster going to be established?

I feel that we'll have somewhat of a stable committee with official structure sometime within the next 3-6 months after CI loses their license. Right now we're in planning/nomination stages, so it's kinda a transition thing to be perfectly honest.

Are they only coming from TCO?
No offense, but shouldn't an idea like this be announced everywhere (including the various Yahoo groups) be done to try and get as wide a group of possible people as can be found?

In essence, hell no. Matter of fact, as you may have noticed a lot of people who have contributed to a vast degree (yourself included, thank you very much) are people who don't really frequent here often (or are lurkers I suppose). The fact that TCO is the largest North American fansite for Raw Deal is hard to deny. SQC is also the largest UK-based one as well. Again, this'll come in due time and all, but I feel that the majority of the supporters will come from these sites (yes, I do know there are other places like PCG, RDSB, and other smaller sites, but most members on those sites have also frequented those two major boards as well).

The Yahoo! group, while a good-sized group, will probably shut down once CI is gone, or be switched over to other moderators whom have some sort of connection to TCO or SQC. I personally hate the organization of Yahoo's forum boards (no structure for searching or threading), and do hope that it transitions out of there, whether it be at TCO, SQC, or an off-site new forum board.

To use the excuse that "well, the main yahoo group is dead" doesn't cut it.  It still has a larger membership number than anyone else, and you wouldn't have to reference TCO...just provide an email for people to contact.

Here's the thing: the Yahoo! group, more or less while an 'official board' for CI's Raw Deal, is difficult to manage. Regardless of it's membership size, to be honest I've got a membership there only for the spoilers that were released prior to CI's home site. As I said before, eventually either the site will be taken over, will be shut down, or moved to another larger fansite IMHO.

Plus, the Yahoo! board is really difficult to moderate as well, since there's no subcategories for the forums there. It's all one giant clusterf*ck of posts.

Also, has anyone ran through the Yahoo directory looking for Regional Raw Deal lists and contact them?

I'm sure that'll be done, but most Raw Deal sites do look to Yahoo, TCO, SQC, RDSB, or PCG for the majority of their information.

There were numerous flaws in the current system...who is to say that not using an old NWA-style territory system might not be better?  Have a basic set of over rules, but then each Territory runs a lot itself.

The more split-up the committee is, the more likely the areas with fewer supporters fill flounder and die. There's no reason to have several sets of rulings, virtual sets, etc., and seeing that the majority of tournament players go all over the place, it would be unfair and...well...stupid to have different rules for the same game.

The better option would be (as it's already been proposed) to have committees split based on the format itself. There's already at least 4 that would be supported (All Axxess, Afterburn, Revolution, and Raw Deal Classic), so that seems thin enough to me.

Have your RDPC be called Board of Player Directors you make overall decisions, like where the next championship run will be held, championships for regions, if titles become vacant, etc.

That's kinda what we're establishing first, minus the "Board" title. The decisions on championships and all seem to be more easy to decide then, say, who should be on the board in the first place.

This would ensure more voices being ACTIVELY heard and more contribution.  Also it would prevent the narrow domination by one or two groups of players as we have seen in the past in Raw Deal and in other games.
[For Highlander players I remind you of Sager & the KC crew]

I don't think this will happen, to be honest. It may seem that way because TCO has taken the first steps towards getting a PC organized, but nevertheless I do feel that once the dust settles there will be balance in the end. Hell, everyone who is uniting to help out weren't really that way prior to the shutdown as is, we've still got our own opinions! There really is only one goal in mind right now that's a definite: keep this game going.

[BigJohnStudd]

Tenshi, your long post made me come to 2 conclusions. you need to be on this committee, and you must be really bored at work today to write such a long detailed answer. I wholeheartedly agree on its points however. I would also like to add a few myself.

I feel some points should be ironed out in the first couple of months to get us organized and to get some wounds healed that where shattered when revo came out/we were told that the game was being canceled. Ideas include

Setting up a world tournament structure. If not for late 2008 then early 2009.
incuded in that should be....
When an where tournaments should be.
Involvement of this years qualifier winners?
entry fees? (and how those monies would be spent)
Prize support.

Getting some sort of synergy with the other fansites, we need to be allies in this and spreading the word to as many as possible is going to be the biggest challenge.

Get some sort of template out there to give managers ideas to keep the game alive in their area. I talked to the game store manager in my area about this and he didnt care how or if I ran tournaments. He was happier when I told him I would have no problem keeping the numbers we already have. Any store manager, however, would welcome more paying customers in their store than less.

One more thing, I heard this rumor that Alan Gordon has this whole warehouse of Raw deal, Including classic boxes old tk's etc. If this is the case we need to know what he is going to do with this. My players will come every week if I have a tournament kit (unless it is movie cards lol) It shouldnt be a problem to haggle/persuade to see if we can get some things from this supposed warehouse and see if we can use that to our advantage. Getting kits/boxes cheap and use them for prize support/etc will have only help the community.

Well thats all the ideas I have at the moment, more to follow.

[Negleyjj]

In creating, and acting with, this committee, it is important to avoid Groupthink. I know associating with people with similar views with you is normal, but Groupthink can lead to really bad things. Different ideas and views are important.

Other thoughts:
1) In absence of Wrestlemania experience (much harder without CI getting us large lots of WM tickets), WC should be at Gen Con. I can not really understand how why you would argue other wise (though I'm glad to hear it for anyone who disagrees)
2) There should be two versions of each main format: with and without virtual cards
3) Figuring out Prize Support (and how long it will last) for local tournaments should be a top goal, for obvious reasons

[piperspitt]

Though it will grow more difficult, I for one would love to see the continuation of sealed deck play.

[Tenshigure]

Though it will grow more difficult, I for one would love to see the continuation of sealed deck play.

That would be extremely difficult to pull off no doubt...the only thing I can think of as far as doing something similar to this is a "blind pool" of some sort that would entail putting a set number of commons/uncommons/rares into a single packet and then using that as the sealed deck.

[ponder505]

Though it will grow more difficult, I for one would love to see the continuation of sealed deck play.

pitt, it's not entirely impossible, even once all the printed cards are gone, to do sealed. We now know the official card text for every card printed in the game, their rarity and distribution, and the fixed contents of every starter. It wouldn't be terribly hard for a tournament manager to (if he has a large enough stock of cards) pull together "starter decks" and "booster packs" made up of exactly the right number and type of cards to do a sealed, so long as he's not playing in the event (otherwise he has a hell of an advantage). Heck, random number generators would do nicely for determining what cards appear in the mock boosters; simply copy the card lists for the set into Excel, use the row numbers as the card's number for the generator's purpose, and roll up some packs. And for those areas without access to card pools large enough to do this, typed proxies would work pretty well by themselves.


And on a completely separate issue, specifically the structure of the Player Committee, I think it wouldn't hurt to divide the Raw Deal community into segments (East Coast US, West Coast US, Middle US, Chile, Singapore, UK, East Coast Canada, West Coast Canada, Middle Canada, for examples) and have each segment put forth one person to be involved in a Regional Directors Advisory Board (or whatever you want to call it), so that way every subsection of the community gets their own opportunity for input. This could be in addition to what we have, or this could be the ruling council, from which the officers are chosen, or it could be something different entirely. I'm not really in a position to say what would work best, since the structure of the RDPC is so nebulous as is. But I think it'd only be fair to ensure that everyone has a chance to put someone on the PC who they know would be able to articulate their position as a region.

[Antigoth]

Adam,

   In regards to where the members are going to come from:

In this thread:
http://www.teamcanadaonline.net/index.php/topic,3722.0.html
I stated:

While my intention for the Raw Deal Players Committee would see the North American Chapter housed here on TCO, I envision there also being UK Chapters (housed on SQC), Chilean Chapters, and the Singaporean Chapter could be housed here as well.

RiJ the head of the Chilean Site Heel Turn has stated that he's in for the ride, and I've had responses from the UK Commish Pete Bradley saying he's in as well, and Neil's an Awesome Bloke who almost cried when I had him sign my "Squared Circle" UFS Card. I think my above intention won't be so hard to make happen.

As for someone reaching out to the Yahoo Group, I will state for either the third or fourth time:

If someone could please post about the intention to form the RDPC to the Yahoo group I would appreciate it. Since every post I can recall making there in recent memory has either been deleted or edited, I am NOT comfortable posting there.
{I've yet to see anyone use the excuse that the Yahoo Group is dead.. mind you 3 posts in a 24 hour period doesn't seem terribly active}

Second time posting this part:
Adam, as a Yahoogroup Moderator, would you be willing to post about the RDPC so that any interested bodies on the yahoo group could wander over here? Especially since the poll on the initial forming of the Group closes tomorrow!

As for the players committee, and who makes it up? Anyone who keeps playing Raw Deal is part of the committee. By playing the game, they are actively working to keep it alive, and enjoy/cherish its memory.

As for who makes up the executive - yes, the executive as long as I'm part of it, will be based out of here. Why is that? This is a free website, devoid of ALL advertising, and is totally not for profit. Additionally we have the ability to set up different sections to house the information, and make it as easily accessible as we'd like.

Tenshi covered most of your questions otherwise.


In regards to the NWA Territory system - absolutely. In no way do I envision the RDPC executive dictating what you do in your own community. However we will establish general guidelines that people can follow if they want to. What I want to do is make sure that people keep playing this game, and that there are still events organized.

The virtual cards (if/when we go there) I will have someone else handle

In regards to Jakes point:
1) Sadly I agree with you 100%. After WM 2008 Orlando, WM events may be few and far between. At this time though, a number of Raw Dealers have purchased their tickets to WM, based on the belief that there were going to be worlds events held there, and we've got a local retailer offering us space... so I'm thinking... why the heck not have one last WM Party!

2) Agreed. I myself am not a fan of virtual cards. I kept playing Highlander without using the MLE stuff (sorry Adam, it was fun, but I play with Brad Hay, and he broke crap). However I totally respect that some people are going to want to use them. The RDPC will hopefully be able to have official templates to be able to create cards with.


RE: Sealed deck player
Courtesy of Matt Mealing I have sealed decks to do at least one round of Drunken Pods for next years Gencon. Additionally there is enough sealed product floating around that you'll be able to get Raw Deal stuff for the next several years. Many Retailers/Distributors will be happy if you take that product off their hands.

Plus I'll be talking to Alan about what he's doing with all of his wearhouse full of product.


3) As soon as the poll closes, unless there is a dramatic shift to the negative, I'll be on the horn to Alan Gordon tomorrow to start making arrangements for stuff.

[bacon]

yeah i think sealed is a great idea.  i mean, it will be super cheap and will be a way for distributors to move boxes of divas or whatever random sets they have.  there is a TON of product out there

and if you buy product for sealed, it may make store owners morel ikely to let you run events at their place each week

but anyway yeah sealed is cool and theres tons of it out there, i think of swccg its been out of print like 6 years and still has sealed stuff

raw draft means you can really draft with ANY sealed product you dont need a specific set

[piperspitt]

Though it will grow more difficult, I for one would love to see the continuation of sealed deck play.

That would be extremely difficult to pull off no doubt...the only thing I can think of as far as doing something similar to this is a "blind pool" of some sort that would entail putting a set number of commons/uncommons/rares into a single packet and then using that as the sealed deck.

excellent ideathat would be a blast.

[piperspitt]

Though it will grow more difficult, I for one would love to see the continuation of sealed deck play.

pitt, it's not entirely impossible, even once all the printed cards are gone, to do sealed. We now know the official card text for every card printed in the game, their rarity and distribution, and the fixed contents of every starter. It wouldn't be terribly hard for a tournament manager to (if he has a large enough stock of cards) pull together "starter decks" and "booster packs" made up of exactly the right number and type of cards to do a sealed, so long as he's not playing in the event (otherwise he has a hell of an advantage). Heck, random number generators would do nicely for determining what cards appear in the mock boosters; simply copy the card lists for the set into Excel, use the row numbers as the card's number for the generator's purpose, and roll up some packs. And for those areas without access to card pools large enough to do this, typed proxies would work pretty well by themselves.

I love this as well, you wouldn't even have to do boosters, you could do random cards and just draft each individually or in groups.

[piperspitt]

  Re: Raw Deal Player Committee
« Reply #62 on: Today at 12:24:27 PM » Quote

Quote


As for someone reaching out to the Yahoo Group, I will state for either the third or fourth time:

If someone could please post about the intention to form the RDPC to the Yahoo group I would appreciate it. Since every post I can recall making there in recent memory has either been deleted or edited, I am NOT comfortable posting there.
{I've yet to see anyone use the excuse that the Yahoo Group is dead.. mind you 3 posts in a 24 hour period doesn't seem terribly active}
Quote


Posted against my better judgment, could be deleted soon :D

[Antigoth]

Thank you Jeremy... you're a good man!

[gkoa]

One more thing, I heard this rumor that Alan Gordon has this whole warehouse of Raw deal, Including classic boxes old tk's etc. If this is the case we need to know what he is going to do with this. My players will come every week if I have a tournament kit (unless it is movie cards lol) It shouldnt be a problem to haggle/persuade to see if we can get some things from this supposed warehouse and see if we can use that to our advantage. Getting kits/boxes cheap and use them for prize support/etc will have only help the community.

I don't know that there is a "warehouse" full, but there is all of the existing stock.  Full Kits of 7,8,9 & 10 are still available.  (Sadly no TK11 was ever printed).  Older promos, yes there are a lot, but sadly the newer stuff not so much.

I have talked to both Ron & Alan and there is being a "plan" worked out so that prize support can continue in someway, just not from CI (that whole stupid license thing)...someone will be taking this over, and Alan has directed an individual to work this out.

Before anyone asks, a decision will be made fairly quickly because CI is also in the process of moving sites, so they have to get this stuff shiped out versus hauling it around with them.

Adam

[BigJohnStudd]

Hey adam, is there any way of getting some info from alan or someone in "the know" about what is there and any way of knowing prices? I know more than likely distributors will get first pics but I know the owner of my store will do some buying if I ask nicely

[gkoa]

2) Agreed. I myself am not a fan of virtual cards. I kept playing Highlander without using the MLE stuff (sorry Adam, it was fun, but I play with Brad Hay, and he broke crap). However I totally respect that some people are going to want to use them. The RDPC will hopefully be able to have official templates to be able to create cards with.


RE: Sealed deck player Courtesy of Matt Mealing I have sealed decks to do at least one round of Drunken Pods for next years Gencon. Additionally there is enough sealed product floating around that you'll be able to get Raw Deal stuff for the next several years. Many Retailers/Distributors will be happy if you take that product off their hands.

Plus I'll be talking to Alan about what he's doing with all of his wearhouse full of product.


3) As soon as the poll closes, unless there is a dramatic shift to the negative, I'll be on the horn to Alan Gordon tomorrow to start making arrangements for stuff.

Brian, your point about MLE was true for all of the first set we did, when it was litterally 2 guys on opposite sides of the world doing it.  Since then, the VR cards have been infinately more improved and balanced that quite a bit of what was actually produced during TCG's time doing (and damn certainly more so than that "Raven" crap)...we added playtesters, designs, input feedback, etc.  All neccessary steps.  It grew and expanded.

As far as Alan, as I said in my other post, things are happening quickly there because they are getting ready to move and they have already begun making arrangements on some stuff.

Adam

[gkoa]

Hey adam, is there any way of getting some info from alan or someone in "the know" about what is there and any way of knowing prices? I know more than likely distributors will get first pics but I know the owner of my store will do some buying if I ask nicely

Yes, you can call CI directly to place an order.  Best do it quickly with the holidays.

[gkoa]

And on a completely separate issue, specifically the structure of the Player Committee, I think it wouldn't hurt to divide the Raw Deal community into segments (East Coast US, West Coast US, Middle US, Chile, Singapore, UK, East Coast Canada, West Coast Canada, Middle Canada, for examples) and have each segment put forth one person to be involved in a Regional Directors Advisory Board (or whatever you want to call it), so that way every subsection of the community gets their own opportunity for input. This could be in addition to what we have, or this could be the ruling council, from which the officers are chosen, or it could be something different entirely. I'm not really in a position to say what would work best, since the structure of the RDPC is so nebulous as is. But I think it'd only be fair to ensure that everyone has a chance to put someone on the PC who they know would be able to articulate their position as a region.

This was my point when I made the example of the old "NWA Territory System."

Regardless of much control or unity a Global group tries to mainatin, the further we get out from the focal point (ie CI ending the license) the more fracturing and splintering we are going to be seeing.

Different areas are going to embrace different play styles, either my nature of what is available to them or what they were doing before.

Also, in an effort to keep interest we will start to see a lot more hybrids -
AA decks using Revo rules?
Total Revo decks using AA Superstars?
etc.

Add in that TK cards will only last so long (and maybe less as players who already have them won't want them) and you will start to see different needs crop up.

Don't kid yourself either.  The splintering is already started.  Already I am seeing people say "well, let's now ban this card because we don't like it locally!"

By having direct contact people in the different regions, who are "on-site" and have a better handle on local situations...there may be a slightly better chance of keeping a national entity together.

Adam

[piperspitt]

Have a "state/province chairman" for each state/province.  In large states like Texas, California, New York you might want two.  East and West, or North and South.

[BigJohnStudd]

Have a "state/province chairman" for each state/province.  In large states like Texas, California, New York you might want two.  East and West, or North and South.

need to look at a current player base for something like that piper. California and texas have lots of people population wise but not RD wise. The three most popular states to play RD as of sept of this year were New York, Indiana and Iowa. NY had something like 75 and the rest of the "bigger" states that have RD players have something like high 30's, however this only states active players in the last 90 days of that date.

Just saying it should be more like House of representatives in that how many on the committee should reflect that amount of players you have.