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HotD: Dale Hansen

Started by superradjoe, February 12, 2014, 10:02:10 PM

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Queensryche

Quote from: JDub on February 13, 2014, 03:29:37 PM
Quote from: CreedP on February 13, 2014, 03:10:26 PM
I've read this three times but all I get out of it is blaming the victim, like "Look how she was dressed, she must have wanted it, and now she's just asking for attention."

To each their own, I guess...

CREED

The guy prides himself on being a gay rights activist and his coach said, among other things, that  "We should round up all the gays, send them to an island, and then nuke it until it glows." He didn't go to the team, the NFL, or even the owner of the Vikings who told him to keep speaking his mind and that he supports him. Instead he waited not till the offseason but the following one after he had been out of a job for almost a season and published this all in a letter to a web site. That tells you everything you need to know about this guys intentions. While there may be truths to his allegations I just don't see how you can prove it and the fact that he didn't do anything about it before tells me he only cares about his personal gain from all of this. It just bugs me that a guy who is supposedly all about doing the right thing and fighting for gay rights seems to be more worried about making a name for himself then actually doing the right things.

Who's to say he didn't go to a higher-up?

JDub

Quote from: Queensryche on February 13, 2014, 03:34:47 PM
Quote from: JDub on February 13, 2014, 03:29:37 PM
Quote from: CreedP on February 13, 2014, 03:10:26 PM
I've read this three times but all I get out of it is blaming the victim, like "Look how she was dressed, she must have wanted it, and now she's just asking for attention."

To each their own, I guess...

CREED

The guy prides himself on being a gay rights activist and his coach said, among other things, that  "We should round up all the gays, send them to an island, and then nuke it until it glows." He didn't go to the team, the NFL, or even the owner of the Vikings who told him to keep speaking his mind and that he supports him. Instead he waited not till the offseason but the following one after he had been out of a job for almost a season and published this all in a letter to a web site. That tells you everything you need to know about this guys intentions. While there may be truths to his allegations I just don't see how you can prove it and the fact that he didn't do anything about it before tells me he only cares about his personal gain from all of this. It just bugs me that a guy who is supposedly all about doing the right thing and fighting for gay rights seems to be more worried about making a name for himself then actually doing the right things.

Who's to say he didn't go to a higher-up?

He went into everything else in great detail why wouldn't he have brought that up? And if he knows the owner supports him and his views why not go to him? Why would he want guys like that working for him?

Queensryche

Quote from: JDub on February 13, 2014, 03:38:27 PM
Quote from: Queensryche on February 13, 2014, 03:34:47 PM
Quote from: JDub on February 13, 2014, 03:29:37 PM
Quote from: CreedP on February 13, 2014, 03:10:26 PM
I've read this three times but all I get out of it is blaming the victim, like "Look how she was dressed, she must have wanted it, and now she's just asking for attention."

To each their own, I guess...

CREED

The guy prides himself on being a gay rights activist and his coach said, among other things, that  "We should round up all the gays, send them to an island, and then nuke it until it glows." He didn't go to the team, the NFL, or even the owner of the Vikings who told him to keep speaking his mind and that he supports him. Instead he waited not till the offseason but the following one after he had been out of a job for almost a season and published this all in a letter to a web site. That tells you everything you need to know about this guys intentions. While there may be truths to his allegations I just don't see how you can prove it and the fact that he didn't do anything about it before tells me he only cares about his personal gain from all of this. It just bugs me that a guy who is supposedly all about doing the right thing and fighting for gay rights seems to be more worried about making a name for himself then actually doing the right things.

Who's to say he didn't go to a higher-up?

He went into everything else in great detail why wouldn't he have brought that up? And if he knows the owner supports him and his views why not go to him? Why would he want guys like that working for him?

His account was already pretty damning. Maybe he was trying to prevent the higher-ups from looking bad because he still likes them.

Only Kluwe's side of the story has been told. There is another side, but we've heard nothing from them.

piperspitt

There is nothing to gain for the "otherside" by commenting. I'm sure they'd rather move on.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

piperspitt

Quote from: CreedP on February 13, 2014, 03:32:30 PM
Piper, I'd dismis this latest statement as haughtily pointing the obvious, but the use of "many victims" sounds the same insensitivity and the same lack of understanding of real-world issues that I have already identified in this thread.

CREED

Yeah, I am insensitive to people that help bring on their own problems with poor behavior and then want to play victim as if they have no responsibility. I see these "victims" everyday. In my business I hear "victim" excuses everyday. "I didn't know my schedule", "my alarm didn't go off", "I'm too sick (because I posted pictures of myself binge drinking the night before on Instagram)", "I didn't get it done because I don't know how (but I never asked for help)". They all consider themselves victims to me holding them accountable to their job duties. Kluwe was specifically warned that he shouldn't become controversial in the media and he ignored his bosses. So yeah I'm not going to join the over sensitive types and proclaim him the victim of the big mean homophobe machine NFL.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

CreedP

So, by your own logic, that's your own fault for having so many irresponsibile employees.  :)  Of course, I am sure you have a good excu... er, reasons for this situation, heh.

CREED
"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world." - Bill Bullard

piperspitt

Absolutely, I have made more poor hires than I care to remember. Sometimes I fail in gaining commitment. When that happens I don't look for sympathy, I look for a way to better the situation and do what is necessary to achieve that.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

CreedP

Well, if I really wanted to continue this fake fault finding exercise (which doesn't seem to be making any progress in helping you find the point), I'd say that clearly you're not a good judge of character from your own admission, so perhaps you shouldn't be judging the Michael Sams and Chris Kluwes and Dale Hansens of the world.  ;)

But I generally find that discussions about real world issues that don't involve sports don't seem to connect with you, so it's generally pretty pointless to even bother.

CREED
"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world." - Bill Bullard

piperspitt

Lol, well I'm fairly successful in this real world with a ton of experience in judging character (the instances I referred to are quite a minority). I'm pretty comfortable with myself and real world issues so I'm perfectly happy letting you believe that a guy being gay is a big news story and a guy that agrees with him is a hero as a result.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

Antigoth

Quote from: piperspitt on February 14, 2014, 01:30:15 AM
Lol, well I'm fairly successful in this real world with a ton of experience in judging character (the instances I referred to are quite a minority). I'm pretty comfortable with myself and real world issues so I'm perfectly happy letting you believe that a guy being gay is a big news story and a guy that agrees with him is a hero as a result.

You're completely missing the point.

A guy being gay *shouldn't* be a big news story.
There is so much hate in the world, that unfortunately it is.
A recent survey showed that 74% of Russians supported their anti-gay laws, and were against gays.

I can only hope that you present yourself as an Ally for GLBT community and provide support to those who need it.


piperspitt

I guess the bottom line is that I don't believe that this much hate really exists. There are only two places I see it. One is in the "anonymous realm of the Internet" where people post mean and hateful stuff that they would never put their name to in real life. The second is in the media where they need to have controversy to keep people interested. I employ a number of gay employees and have never had any issue with anybody treating them differently. I'm also a volunteer employee at a high school and I've never seen any hate directed at a student because of their sexual orientation.
  The problem may be that some people misuse the word hate. They use it to describe people that disagree with something. Anybody that doesn't support gay rights is labeled a homophobe. I do know some people that disagree with homosexuality, but they do not hate, dislike, or have a problem with people who are homosexual.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

CreedP

Uh, yeah, you really don't have an understanding of the issues at all.  Kudos for living in a very tolerant area, but it is very much the minority in this country, unfortunately.  Having 2 gay roommates and a transgender/lesbian couple, I have heard a lot more than what you consider controversial reporting.

And when it escalates to physical violence, hate is an appropriate term.

CREED
"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world." - Bill Bullard

piperspitt

I totally agree that escalating to violence would  involve hate.  I hope you all stand up to people when you see hateful behavior towards somebody for their sexual orientation.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

Queensryche

OK, I lied. THIS is the last thing I will say to you Piper in regards to this issue.

The world you perceive is a wonderful. A place where hatred and intolerance are waning is a wonderful place. But that isn't the reality we live in. Unfortunately, our respective perceptions of reality do not align at all, and because of that, I think it's best we not engage each other in serious discourse anymore.

piperspitt

Then make it your reality. Hang around the right kind of people, live in a good neighborhood, work at job with a friendly atmosphere.  If you witness this hatred, stand up against it. What types of places do you see this happening at? If it's at work it should be easy to stop, if it's in general public help defend the victim. I would never allow this at my business, school, home, or anywhere I was. It surprises me that so many of you seem to frequently see this behavior, but nobody has posted about what they did to stop it.

  Don't get me wrong. I see confrontation and people that don't like each other plenty, but it's not because of sexual orientation, gender, race, religion, age etc. Humans are competitive by nature and it's perfectly normal to not like all people, but most people are reasonable and understand what is and is not a valid reason to dislike another.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

CreedP

#40
This sounds less like the real world and more like the Smurf Village mixed with an Afterschool Special.

Quote from: Queensryche on February 14, 2014, 07:10:38 PM
The world you perceive is a wonderful. A place where hatred and intolerance are waning is a wonderful place. But that isn't the reality we live in. Unfortunately, our respective perceptions of reality do not align at all, and because of that, I think it's best we not engage each other in serious discourse anymore.

I think I'm with QR on that.  There's just no point.

CREED
"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world." - Bill Bullard

superradjoe

Homophobia is quite rampant here in Atlanta, even though it is quite an accepting city.  Try going to a Braves game and hearing the stuff people yell at the players they dislike.  Yeah, Piper, you're way off base on this one.
XBL: Buck Fanana / PSN: Buck_Fanana
Hit me up on Lackey if you wanna play some MANIA ERA!!!

piperspitt

Yelling at a player you don't like makes you homophobic? I guess if it's a gay player you don't like only because he's gay. 

None of you have recounted any of the numerous encounters you have had that prove that the world is a homophobic hateful place nor mentioned that you have stood up to any of this. While I can accept that my area could be way more tolerant than yours, I can't just accept that you all can vouch for the rest of the corners of the world with out giving any real life evidence.  Joe did give an example from Atlanta, it just didn't really have details (I did not witness this at the Braves game that I went to).  I'm not the type of person that will believe the opposite of my experience just because I read it on the Internet. Does this bad stuff exist? I'm sure it does. Do I believe your accounts that the majority or at least a large percentage of people hate others for these reasons? Not even close.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

Daeva

Quote from: piperspitt on February 15, 2014, 12:37:54 AM
Yelling at a player you don't like makes you homophobic? I guess if it's a gay player you don't like only because he's gay.  

Yelling "f*g" and "queer" as insults makes you homophobic. I'm pretty sure That is what Joe was trying to get at while still trying to be safe for work.
Nate Weiss, Retired Dealer
"You're no fun." -Creed
Timing question? Look here.
Evidence is everything in a court of law. Evidence is also everything in the Rules Forum.

Antigoth

#44
Jeremy, PLEASE take the time to watch this:

http://www.tsn.ca/reorientation/

I get that you say it's the media, and this doesn't happen in your world.

But watch the accounts of Gay Athletes and the culture that they face.

Or you dismiss "casual homophobia", and peoples perceptions of it as "oversensitive."

When someone says "That's gay", or insults someone by saying "you're a f*g", they're saying that out of all the worst possible things that they know, the worst thing to compare the situation to is a homosexual. Imagine being a homosexual, hearing that. Hearing that what you are, who you are, is the negative insult casually hurled.

Blissfully being in Canada we are much more tolerant than the United States. Gay marriage has been legal here since 2005. Not only is the marriage legal, but partners are entitled to benefits here in Canada. It's a non-issue, it's part of our daily life. Denying someone the basic human right to be able to marry who they love because "you" disagree with it, that's hate, that's discrimination. That's saying "You are less of a human being".

However are there still homophobes who inflict violence? Yes. Have I personally witnessed it? No. However my Co-Chair from Keycon, he and his partner have experienced the violence, hate, and discrimination. I know you want the details, but this is not the place or the forum for me to share their stories.

What I am hearing from you repeatedly is your white privilege. You are not part of a (visible) minority. You haven't had to walk a mile in their shoes to understand what they're going through, and what they experience. I've had a few situations over the last couple of years where my eyes have been opened.

As for what I've done? I'm not going to give you a laundry list, but as soon as I became an admin on this site, I altered the filter to include "f*g" as an offensive term. Looking at my choice to replace it "girly man", I'm now even rethinking the appropriateness of that as a replacement.
 

dilbert505

Quote from: Antigoth on February 15, 2014, 02:37:01 AMAs for what I've done? I'm not going to give you a laundry list, but as soon as I became an admin on this site, I altered the filter to include "f*g" as an offensive term. Looking at my choice to replace it "girly man", I'm now even rethinking the appropriateness of that as a replacement.

Not to engage with the rest of the thread (I greatly prefer avoiding things that make me rage uncontrollably), but if I may make a suggestion for a replacement term, I'd recommend replacing that, and any other terms of similar etymology (vulgarities starting with "n," "r," and the like), with "unacceptable slur." It provides no context, but states quite clearly that the terminology will not be tolerated here.
Universally Recognized as a Mature and Responsible Adult.

Playing on Lackey? I'm on US Eastern Time; you can check what time it is for me here.

Antigoth

Quote from: dilbert505 on February 15, 2014, 02:45:17 AM
Not to engage with the rest of the thread (I greatly prefer avoiding things that make me rage uncontrollably), but if I may make a suggestion for a replacement term, I'd recommend replacing that, and any other terms of similar etymology (vulgarities starting with "n," "r," and the like), with "unacceptable slur." It provides no context, but states quite clearly that the terminology will not be tolerated here.

Thank you.

Done.

Queensryche

#47
Quote from: Antigoth on February 15, 2014, 02:37:01 AM

Blissfully being in Canada we are much more tolerant than the United States. Gay marriage has been legal here since 2005. Not only is the marriage legal, but partners are entitled to benefits here in Canada. It's a non-issue, it's part of our daily life. Denying someone the basic human right to be able to marry who they love because "you" disagree with it, that's hate, that's discrimination. That's saying "You are less of a human being".


And now there are homophobes using state power to declare gay people are less than human and not deserving of ANY basic rights!

F**k Kansas. Seriously. F**k its legislators, its governor, and everyone who elected those homophobes to power.

piperspitt

Are you saying that because I'm white and hetero I'm automatically privileged? Everything came easy and didn't face adversity and everything was handed to me? I don't think you mean that, but it comes across that way. Have I walked a mile in their shoes? Yes and no, I'm sure there are quite a few with similar experiences to me and some not even close.
  I totally disagree that if somebody says "that's gay" that they are comparing the thing/situation to the worst thing possible. They are merely voicing an opinion. If the word marriage can have multiple meanings, so can the word gay. Does gay equal queer? Does queer equal odd? Does gay equal happy? If somebody says "that's gay" with out any homosexual reference, it doesn't make sense to me that it would offend a gay person. I don't think that somebody is a heterophobe if they refer to "go straight to hell" and I don't think that they are referring to all straight people as stiffs because they say "on the straight and narrow". Words only have hurtful power if people let them.  People are people and created equal, they are not better than others just because they are gay, or white, or morman, or Russian. People better themselves by the way they live their lives, the choices they make, and the way they treat others. I treat people equally and nicely unless they give me a reason not to. I understand that words uttered at about somebody directly can create emotion, but it's silly that if somebody says "that traffic detour is gay", that it would offend a gay person.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

Antigoth

Your post has identified just how out of touch you are. Either you're trolling, or you are truly ignorant of reality.

Yes, because you are white and straight your life has been easier.

The next time you hear someone say "that's gay" go ask them what they mean. Maybe then you'll wake up.

I'm done here.