Author Topic: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers  (Read 7245 times)

Offline neuromancer

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2009, 07:20:09 PM »
CM Punk is good as a heel, we all know that, but WWE do not need more heel like u suggested. At least that's what I think. WWE has few main heels, Randy Orton, Edge and Jericho(you can count in Big Show if you want). If heels starts to get too many, the sales will actually drop due to kids and women disliking it. WWE feels that having that number of heels will be enough. If there are too many heels, the crowd seriously won't jeer on one particular heel as much. Their boos will in a way be "spread out" among the heels.
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Offline piperspitt

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2009, 06:46:33 AM »
You are assuming that there is a fixed amount of jeers. Heels are booed by how much they are disliked. It's not like someone says "wait don't boo Jericho because we need to save some boos for Orton".  I firmly believe that more people pay to see the heels get their ass kicked than to see the face overcome all odds again.  However, you are correct that there must be a sort of face/heel balance to make the overall program work.
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Offline neuromancer

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2009, 07:12:15 AM »
You are assuming that there is a fixed amount of jeers. Heels are booed by how much they are disliked. It's not like someone says "wait don't boo Jericho because we need to save some boos for Orton".  I firmly believe that more people pay to see the heels get their ass kicked than to see the face overcome all odds again.  However, you are correct that there must be a sort of face/heel balance to make the overall program work.

I know what I said earlier sounded a bit ridiculous, but what I said earlier on wasn't exactly what you said.

It's just a phenomenon I observed through all these years. 
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Offline Hunter_Hearst_Hobbit

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2009, 07:24:23 AM »
During the Attitude era, Rock and Austin both broke through the glass as heels. Given the proper circumstances, Punk could turn and eventually become more over than when he started. If the WWE feels that it can take a small revenue hit by making Punk heel, then the risk may be well worth the reward.

I don't know how well Punk's merchandise sells, but they have other wrestlers who can pick up the slack. Since having a great heel is paramount to having a successful face, Punk could step up his promo game and hopefully increase the merchandise of his opponent.

It's also possible that the Edge might turn. If Hardy doesn't leave the WWE, I could honestly see Hardy/Edge teaming up out of respect for each other. Punk/Jericho could team up on the basis that they're simply morally better than Hardy/Edge. Also, Hardy/Edge have a reason to dislike Punk as he's cost them both their title. The association of Punk/Jericho simply helps the audience to associate Punk with his new alignment.
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Offline piperspitt

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2009, 07:41:47 AM »
There seems to be an incorrect assumption that heels don't sell merchandise. This is false Triple H has been living proof of that.
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Offline JaysonPhenix

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2009, 07:56:03 AM »
During the Attitude era, Rock and Austin both broke through the glass as heels. Given the proper circumstances, Punk could turn and eventually become more over than when he started. If the WWE feels that it can take a small revenue hit by making Punk heel, then the risk may be well worth the reward.

I don't know how well Punk's merchandise sells, but they have other wrestlers who can pick up the slack. Since having a great heel is paramount to having a successful face, Punk could step up his promo game and hopefully increase the merchandise of his opponent.

It's also possible that the Edge might turn. If Hardy doesn't leave the WWE, I could honestly see Hardy/Edge teaming up out of respect for each other. Punk/Jericho could team up on the basis that they're simply morally better than Hardy/Edge. Also, Hardy/Edge have a reason to dislike Punk as he's cost them both their title. The association of Punk/Jericho simply helps the audience to associate Punk with his new alignment.

Yeah this is the scenario i see happening too.  Maybe this week ends up Punk/Hardy vs Edge/Jericho but if so I see like Punk walking out on Hardy and at the same time a blunder between Jericho and Edge leading to Jericho codebreaking Edge setting up the double turn. 

But in WWE's best times its been when the faces have been severally outnumbered.  Austin took on the whole alliance more or less on his own same with Rock when asutin was gone.  the lone face vs insurmountable odds has usually been easy money in WWE when done right

It was the same philosophy in WCW when it was at its best.  NWO kicked ass week in and week out for almost a year then finally when the faces fought back the crowds went nuts and ratings were high
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 08:04:44 AM by JaysonPhenix »

Offline Hunter_Hearst_Hobbit

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2009, 09:35:44 AM »
There seems to be an incorrect assumption that heels don't sell merchandise. This is false Triple H has been living proof of that.

Triple H is also an exception to the rule. I would argue his association with DX led to high merchandise sales. He's also the first heel to walk out of WM victorious. And the booking around him in 2001 had him positioned as the star of the company. You're going to want your top star to draw.

The rationale for a strong heel in 2001 probably included the thought that whatever face dethrones the Game will see a huge increase in merchandise sales. The WWE never brought anyone up to Triple H's "level" so he stayed on top of the card. Still, the man was being booked strong and sales probably reflected that booking.

The WWE was also in a different mindset when Triple H was a heel. The more kid-centric booking leads to the faces generally selling more merchandise. I can only imagine how many of those Mysterio masks the WWE has sold.

This isn't to say that heels never sell merchandise, but that the traditional wrestling model tends to lend itself to a successful face being the front man for the company.

Heels happen to be more interesting in the WWE because Vince only really knows one "face" model. Slap as many hands as possible, preach some moral, and vanquish your opponent with an impressive feat of strength (Hogan slamming Andre, Lex slamming Yoko, Cena and the FU to Big Show, Brock and the F5 to Big Show). Add in that heels generally carry the work of the match, and you have a wrestler more interesting than whatever generic face Vince is pushing.
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Offline piperspitt

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2009, 09:43:36 AM »
So use Piper, Savage, Austin, Undertaker, Edge, the NWO or anybody else to show that heels move merchandise. Those are a lot of exceptions.
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Offline Hunter_Hearst_Hobbit

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2009, 09:45:58 AM »
This isn't to say that heels never sell merchandise, but that the traditional wrestling model tends to lend itself to a successful face being the front man for the company. 
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Offline grymm666

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2009, 10:39:17 AM »
CM Punk is good as a heel, we all know that, but WWE do not need more heel like u suggested. At least that's what I think. WWE has few main heels, Randy Orton, Edge and Jericho(you can count in Big Show if you want). If heels starts to get too many, the sales will actually drop due to kids and women disliking it. WWE feels that having that number of heels will be enough. If there are too many heels, the crowd seriously won't jeer on one particular heel as much. Their boos will in a way be "spread out" among the heels.

I believe there needs to be a balance between heels and faces, but right now, in the WWE, there are entirely too many faces. You named four main heels, but I can name alot more main faces like HHH, Batista, Jeff Hardy, Undertaker, HBK, Rey Mysterio, John Cena, now of course Undertaker and HBK are not around at this time but when they were around, it was still the same. There needs to be more heels because that is what makes WWE tv worth watching, you want to root for the good guy but its still fun to see a bad guy win and how they do it, because you know that the good guy will get them back. Heels make good television, I can't tell you how many face vs face matches that I get bored over. There is no conflict in half of the matches on RAW, they just throw guys into matches. Take last night, the six man tag with Goldust, Santino, and Festus against The Brian Kendrick, Chavo, and Jamie Noble? I mean come on, you can tell just from that that there needs to be more heels. Jamie Noble is not a heel or a face, he is a fill-in wrestler, don't want to say that, cause I liked it when he was Cruiserweight champion and he had Nidia.

Heels sell merchandise, one example, nWo, that's all that needs to be said.

Plus, the WWE needs to go back to the Attitude, enough of the PG stuff. The WWE shouldn't have to censor what won them the Monday Night Wars, its the parents of the kids that should censor their children from what they watch.

Offline JaysonPhenix

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2009, 10:51:59 AM »
well lets see how the two shows stack up

Raw Heels
Top level: Legacy and Big Show
Mid Tier: Matt Hardy, Regal and the Miz
Lower Tier: Kendrick, Chavo, noble

Raw Faces
Top Level: Cena, Batista, Triple H
Mid Tier: MVP, Kofi, Santino
Lower Tier: Goldust, Cartlito, Primo, hornswaggle

Smackdown Heels
Top Tier: Edge, Chris Jericho
Middle Tier: Shelton, Mike Knox
Lower Tier: Ummm who's left???

Smackdown faces
Top tier: Jeff Hardy, CM Punk, Mysterio
Middle Tier: John Morrison
Lower Tier: is there one???

so obvioulsy there is some lopsidedness going on, and of course there is some switching around to occur soon so hopefully its more even

Offline Rein

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2009, 03:36:56 AM »
The one night I leave the PPV pissed off that Edge got beat in the ladder match and I missed the CM Punk MITB thing.  Along with 80% of the bar lol.

Offline AoTF Jon

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2009, 02:47:41 PM »
Damn it I missed the 2 most important moments for a ROH CM Punk fan to miss. 1st Summer of Punk 3.... And his Heel turn!!!! God here is hoping he went on Burbon Street and went nuts of all the stupid drunks walking around..


Why god Why did i have to miss this show in New Orleans? :'( :'(
YES I wanted to win damn it cause I'm a Belt Mark!!!

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Offline Have_A_Nice_Day

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Re: Extreme Rules: Major Spoilers
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2009, 08:40:27 PM »
it seems to me the hyped up the Orton vs Batista match 2 much and to me it seemed like a 10 minute match the only match i thought was good was the hardcore match for the ECW title yay! Tommy dreamer now he will have it 4 about 2 weeks