Author Topic: A question for Creed  (Read 2061 times)

Offline rntaboy

  • Posts: 19
  • +0/-0
    • View Profile
A question for Creed
« on: December 11, 2008, 06:06:16 PM »
Creed,
First I want to say Rev 4 has turned out wonderfully, you are doing such a great job.

Now to my question, and this doesn't have anything to do with Rev 4, so feel free to move it if you want.
For a final in one of my college classes we have been tasked with creating a business proposal. I have decided, since Raw Deal has been on my mind for the past six months (thanks to you), that my proposal will center around a collectible card game. As part of the paper, we are tasked with providing real world cost analysis (development, production, promotion and distribution costs, etc. specifically for my proposal) from non-fictitious sources as a major component of the final project. I was wondering if you had the name and possibly contact info for the printing/manufacturing company that produced the cards for Raw Deal, or could help me with someone who would know that information.
Any help would be amazing, but regardless, everyone is sincerely grateful for what you have done to revive the game that we love, love enough for one of us to write a term paper inspired by it.
-Ren

Offline CreedP

  • Voice of Reason
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21445
  • +494/-369
    • View Profile
Re: A question for Creed
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 06:44:54 PM »
Thank you for all the kind words, its a big help toward clearly those last couple hurdles.  Normally they only produce sets that have between 100-200 cards, R4 has double that.. if manufactured, it would probably be on par with SS3, though the collectibility would be awkward since you only need 1 Jamie Noble card, but might want a bunch of Carlito Says and Stop Trying to Hit Me, etc.  :)

As for the printing information, no sorry, never knew that.  CI did, maybe Barron or Mike, and I think 'goth might have mentioned the name of the printer they used.. but I never knew it.

CREED
"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world." - Bill Bullard

Offline Antigoth

  • TCO's Weapon X
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12211
  • +243/-164
  • Order Junkie
    • View Profile
    • Team Canada Online
Re: A question for Creed
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 07:05:39 PM »
CI's printer was Quebecor based out Montreal, PQ, Canada.

I don't have any cost data. However you may wish to source other printers such as Carta Mundi.
I'm unaware of who STG used / FFG uses for UFS. <I know it's not Quebecor or Carta Mundi> You may want to reach out to the various printing companies for direct pricing quotes.

US Games did their own printing for their Wyvern CCG when they dallied into the CCG market.

Your costs will be directly impacted by the following:

  • # of cards in the set.
  • # of sheets.  (For example, Comic Images on a typical expansion worked with 5 sheets - Common, Uncommon, Rare, Premium Rare, Ultra Rare. They would then have for sets with starters an additional two sheets - starter foils, and then the remainder of the fixed starter cards.)
    Typically all promo foils (TK/Promo foils) found themselves on the starter deck sheet.

    As a contrast, UFS works with two sheets on booster expansions - a common/uncommon sheet (non-foil) and a rare/super rare sheet (foil)
  • Distribution of the cards in packs. Comic Images had a fixed rarity, a set # of commons, uncommons, rares per set. UFS on the other hand only has a specific of 1 foil per pack, and then the commons/uncommons fluctuate as their distribution is random. Additionally you have the hotpacks.
  • Packaging, including starter decks. How many cards are fixed in the starter, what are the costs associated with that? How big is your rules book? Take a look at the newly released stater decks for V:TES's Keepers of the Traditions expansion. They are the sexiest looking starters I have ever seen. Period.

If you want to explore some lower cost alternatives for packaging, look into Le Montagnard's Highlander CCG. For the second edition they've gone with a sort of "do it yourself" printing process, where the cards look cheap, and the booster wrapping resembles that of a pop tart.
However it's help reduced his costs. <Highlander CCG was originally released by Thunder Castle Games, which folded around 99/2000, and Le Montagnard is simply the new company formed by Mike Sager who is the president of both companies>

Typically the printers will then ship the entire print run back to your wear house for you to distribute.

At which point, do you sell to stores directly? Do you use distributors to ship your product?
Do you do something like what WOTC or Wizkids did and enter into an exclusive relationship with a distributor to sell your product? You have distributors like Alliance and Diamond. In Canada you have Distributors like Lion Rampart and Grosnor.


As something else you will have to look at is licensing fees. Are you creating a CCG based on your own property?

If you're creating something like Raw Deal, you will have to pay two licensing fees  1) for the game engine, where you have to licence it from the estate of BVT, and from Mike himself. 2) From the WWE.

V:TES <Vampire The Eternal Struggle> - Originally W:OTC had to pay licensing fees to White Wolf for using the World of Darkness materials. Now, that White Wolf took back the game from WOTC, they have to pay a licensing fee for using the Deckmaster game engine.

UFS <Universal Fighting System> - Pays Licening fees for each of its properties. Street Fighter and Dark Stalkers to Capcom. Soul Calibur III <and soon IV> to Namco. Samurai Showdown and King of Fighters to SNK Playmore.

Decipher was dealt a swift kick in the balls a few years ago when Lucas films pulled the Star Wars license out from under Decipher and flipped it over to WOTC.

There's a healthy start for you. Good luck.



 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 07:23:30 PM by Antigoth »

Offline rntaboy

  • Posts: 19
  • +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: A question for Creed
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2008, 07:17:24 PM »
This really doesn't have anything to do with the above, but my professor brought up a question that I'd never really given any thought to: Who currently owns the rights to the game system that Raw Deal operates under? Is it Comic Images, or Baron's family and Mike Foley? Anyone know?

Offline CreedP

  • Voice of Reason
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21445
  • +494/-369
    • View Profile
Re: A question for Creed
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2008, 07:43:59 PM »
Mike Foley does.

CREED
"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world." - Bill Bullard

Offline frehocc

  • 2005 Raw Deal World Champion
  • TCO Donor
  • ****
  • Posts: 2580
  • +221/-179
  • I think I just had an evilgasm
    • View Profile
Re: A question for Creed
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2008, 04:21:03 AM »
Mike Foley does.

CREED

ask him if he is interested in using that game engine for some other series. Any series. That engine should not be collecting dust underneath his stairs
Suckiest card... EVER... Frankie Takes Hollywood. Sucks so hard it is practically a black hole.
God of War gives it: 2 blades of chaos down

Offline piperspitt

  • TCO Donor
  • ****
  • Posts: 8565
  • +373/-375
  • You don't throw rocks at a man with a machine gun!
    • View Profile
Re: A question for Creed
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2008, 08:43:17 AM »
he is doing a school project, not trying to actually produce a game.
"I was Rowdy before rowdy was cool!"

Offline CreedP

  • Voice of Reason
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21445
  • +494/-369
    • View Profile
Re: A question for Creed
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2008, 10:45:23 AM »
He's been asked.  There's been some discussions, but last I heard, nothing came of it.

CREED
"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world." - Bill Bullard