Author Topic: A Noble Challenge... :)  (Read 4452 times)

Offline CreedP

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A Noble Challenge... :)
« on: October 02, 2008, 09:21:11 AM »
So... of all the Superstars we tried to design cards for, one has been an absolute puzzler: Jamie Noble.  I've been trying to use his new card but haven't found that 'thing', that 'it' factor, to build the deck around.  Here's what I see:

Noble's SSA:  Recovering a card when you're hit means your opponent HAS to get Fortitude for you to have functionality.  The problem in this era of the game is that the more you get hit, the more Fortitude your opponent has, and the more likely he is to reverse anything you throw as he gets to Manager/Sloppy range, not to mention the possibility of taking fatal damage.  ("Shoot Forearm?"  "T-Bone Exploder Suplex reverses ftw!!" :( Welcome to NPE-land.) 

Making his ability stronger only through playing a Universally Unique card, which might see an increase in play with Vickie Guerrero decks, is also not so good.  Solution:  Put the CW title in play before Pre-match begins.

The Trailer Park Trash bit was awesome in its day for Face Noble, but asking him to push through an unprotected F:0 Action with Volley This and Scotty's W-O-R-M is absurd, and makes both cards not worth packing.   Solution:  Drop a TPT in the Ring at the start of the game.  Sure, Flair/CLB rip it off the board, but against the other 180+ superstars, that's a decent option.  :)

Card Support:  Managed by Nidia means you spend a Pre-match slot to draw out a DTTAH while giving them +1HS for a -3 card advantage.  Boo.  :(  His actions are casually helpful support cards, but overcosted and also easily reversible.  A low-cost TMF, along with his original Bow & Arr.. er, Trailer Hitch  ;)  are nice if you can get them in hand, AND get F, AND not get Sloppy/Manager for your troubles, heh.  While "Get Some Respect" can be a decent reversal, truly his money card is Managed by Nidia, the self-recurring reversal - but it has led to most Noble decks being 'trick' oriented, such as a sponge Redemption build or the classic Turn-the-Tide + 2x TMFs decks which put all their effort into one big shot.

So it seems that if he is to be playable, first his cards need improving, and he needs to be better at doing something.  If he's a sponge, then he needs recovery.  If he's a "Turn the Tide" type deck, then he needs more support at doing THAT.

Keeping all of that in mind, off the top of my head, we get.. this:

Redneck Rampage
Backstage Card
Search your Arsenal for Trailer Park Trash and your Backlash for Cruiserweight Title Belt, put those cards in your Ring, and shuffle your Arsenal.
Your Noble-specific Action cards (which are now F:0) and the Activated Card Effect of Managed by Nidia cannot be reversed.
When you have less Fortitude than your opponent, your cards are -#F, where # is your opponent's Fortitude.
Unique

Yes, that's hefty - but is it really TOO much when you look at the rest of Noble?  Does he have playabiilty and an interest besides the 'trick' decks, or the obvious Vickie G. build?

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Offline JaysonPhenix

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2008, 09:41:39 AM »
How about evolving his base abilit some.  Like after the intial ability goes off, You may remove a move *or a non prematch card with printed damage equal to or less* from opponent's ring area to ringside equal to or of less fort than the move just played.  Said played move may not be the one chosen?  or something like that.  That could keep opponent's at bay some from stringing move after move off.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 09:44:08 AM by JaysonPhenix »

Offline KevinPeters

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2008, 12:50:12 PM »
Creed

Rampage is amazing.

Build him toolbox. Diving takedown and shoots to get rid of opponents hand. Do redemption and HIAC for pesky matchups.

Offline Antigoth

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2008, 01:54:20 PM »
1) The Noble "Clap" deck was not a trick deck, it was a pile of awesome. And that match from SoCal is to never be spoken of, so I have to shut up now. The Noble 'trick' decks are solid viable cerebral decks.

2) That card specifically gives me the heebie jeebies. Suddenly you see Noble playing massive pain reversals, and just chucking nothing but TMFs. Mixing that with sponge makes noble something to dread.

3) How about giving him a storyline card instead?





Offline CreedP

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2008, 02:35:02 PM »
3) How about giving him a storyline card instead?

Bro, I luv ya, but that's the least helpful suggestion ever.  A Storyline.. that does what?  Uses what parts of the existing card, gives what new ability?  :)

As far as 'sitting on pain reversals', Dallas thins a pain-reversal deck rather well, and there's a lot of 'anti-pain-reversal' cards out there like The Opening Volley, High-Flying Style, Backed by Vickie Guerrero... guys like Tazz now have immunity to Spine Buster, and so on.  Also, can you really afford to pack Spine Buster TB, Power Slam TB, etc when you may well run into a Revo Batista chucking Throws, or an Extremist lobbing Extremes?  Well.. you CAN, I'm just not of the mindset that it would be very effective.

If that's your main concern, though, we could limit it to Noble's own turn - so he can't sit there and do nothing, then use F:0 Managers and such.  Although with OSWM TB, an opponent may well tell him to get off his ass and throw maneuvers or die.  :P

I *did* have a feeling this card would be strong, but it seems to give the 'non cerebral' player a reason to play Noble, and even pack cards with his logo that AREN'T titled Nidia Interferes.  :P

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Yeah, like I said..  ::)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 04:05:10 PM by CreedP »
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Offline Dark Knight Bob

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2008, 03:54:48 PM »
I *did* have a feeling this card would be strong, but it seems to give the 'non cerebral' player a reason to play Noble, and even pack cards with his logo that AREN'T titled Managed by Nidia.  :P
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Nidia Interferes.

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Offline Antigoth

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2008, 04:39:36 PM »
Nidia Interferes.
Worst. Card. Ever.

What crack are you smoking. That card is pure money.

I'm wondering if a storyline card in line with his slightly revised character on TV would be worth while.

How about have the story line effect the divas win condition making it both easier and harder if that makes any sense. I don't have their card text handy, but I really think that would be money considering every week he's chasing a diva trying to get them in his corner, and when he does it's a win for him.

Here's my cracked out Idea:

I'm gonna show you a good time
Prematch: Storyline
When you play this card, place the card <WWE logo> Divas: The Next Generation from your backlash deck into your staging area. Instead of saying "...if you have the cards titled...", it now reads "...if you have one of the cards titled...". It is permanent and has the RMS symbol.
RMS
Permanent
F:0 D:0


Offline CreedP

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2008, 04:59:44 PM »
Um, no, bro.

3x Interest of Fairness TB, maybe Old School Manager, Spinner Belt, etc.  Showtime, Sharmell: Sizzling Spouse, I win.  Heck, even TTI TB + FLAU.

No, see, the idea is to make GAMES happen.  The old kind.  I hit you, you hit me, we go back and forth - remember when Raw Deal used to be a wrestling match, kinda sorta?  That's what R4 is about, not cheap wins, but gameplay.  Fun times.  :)

Now, talking with Nate, I agree its in the 'too good' range, so let's scale it down - what about this?

Redneck Rampage

Backstage Card
Search your Arsenal for Trailer Park Trash and your Backlash for Cruiserweight Title Belt, put those cards in your Ring, and shuffle your Arsenal.
Your Noble-specific Action cards are F:0 and Multi, and the Activated Card Effect of Managed by Nidia cannot be reversed.
When you have less Fortitude than your opponent, your non-unique maneuvers are -#F, where # is your opponent's Fortitude.  [if this is STILL too good, it can be 1/2 their Fortitude]
Unique

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Offline Antigoth

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2008, 05:22:58 PM »
Um, no, bro.

3x Interest of Fairness TB, maybe Old School Manager, Spinner Belt, etc.  Showtime, Sharmell: Sizzling Spouse, I win.  Heck, even TTI TB + FLAU.

Hell in a Cell nukes this outright.
And I was thinking of possibly adding a line of text saying "All cards titled ... are now F:10"

Quote
No, see, the idea is to make GAMES happen.  The old kind.  I hit you, you hit me, we go back and forth - remember when Raw Deal used to be a wrestling match, kinda sorta?  That's what R4 is about, not cheap wins, but gameplay.  Fun times.  :)

You're talking to the guy who played X-Pac through fully loaded, Scooped people first turn with Benoit in Mania, and played a Raven lock deck during ARUS. I'm probably not the right person to talk to about building decks that involve going back and forth and emulate a wrestling match.

Besides... I said the card was cracked out, I didn't say it was a good idea or balanced. I was just quickly throwing something together to try and be more constructive than my previous comments. Remember, you're the one who's building Revo 4, not me  8)

Quote
Now, talking with Nate, I agree its in the 'too good' range, so let's scale it down - what about this?

Redneck Rampage

Backstage Card
Search your Arsenal for Trailer Park Trash and your Backlash for Cruiserweight Title Belt, put those cards in your Ring, and shuffle your Arsenal.
Your Noble-specific Action cards are F:0 and Multi, and the Activated Card Effect of Managed by Nidia cannot be reversed.
When you have less Fortitude than your opponent, your non-unique maneuvers are -#F, where # is your opponent's Fortitude. 
Nah... that's solid at this point, I wouldn't tone it down any further. In fact part of me wonders if it's gone too far in watering down the second part.

Then again it'll stop the sponge deck from soaking 70 damage, and playing "goodnight everybody"
(Cause I so would have done that... redemption+ Goodnight FTW)

It's currently too easy to get rid of title belts, so I'm wondering if your Cruiser Weight belt should be permanent.



Offline TheGrits

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 08:00:31 PM »
I like the fortitude reduction bonus of the card. It kind of gives him an additional ability similar to Respect Da Bookerman. I'm not certain it really invites back and forth play so much, though. As Antigoth suggested, it might actually encourage you to stall more until you can combo out on someone. Here's a few suggestions I'd have for making a card for Noble:

1: Give him a an opening maneuver that he could search for and throw to get on the board, but that also had some kind of ACE ability that could place it back in his ringside to reuse. Something like:

Redneck Rampage
Maneuver: Strike+Grapple+High Risk
ACE: discard to continue your turn
multi
unique
F:0 D:6

2: Give him a "Fixer Feud" like other superstars that would augment/alter his ability or it's wording.

You're In My Neck of The Woods Now...
Pre-Match: Feud
This card is also considered to have the title "Cruiserweight Title Belt."
At the end of any turn, if that player has not played a maneuver, he overturns X cards.

3: A card that would turn Trailer Park Trash into fuel for some other ability.

One Man's Trash is Another Man's Gold
Mid-Match: Action
Can only be reversed by superstar specific reversals
Recover cards equal to the number of maneuvers in your opponent's ringside.
When this card is in your ring, you may discard a card/x cards titled Trailer Park Trash. Put one card with an ACE from your ringside into your ring.
unique
F:0 D:0

4: Give him a card that does nothing when played, but plays off his ability, like Destiny for Randy Orton.

Southern Comfort
Action
When this card is in your ringside, your maneuvers -XF.
Discard this card, your opponent's next maneuver is -XD.
unique
F:0 D:0




Offline superradjoe

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2008, 09:19:27 PM »

It's currently too easy to get rid of title belts, so I'm wondering if your Cruiser Weight belt should be permanent.




That's what I was thinking too, same for Trailer Park Trash.
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Offline neuromancer

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2008, 09:43:26 PM »
What I think is that if you get to put title belt before your opponent, you will definitely get to play The Champ Is Here before anyone else.
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Offline The Hurricane

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2008, 11:16:55 PM »
Well since he's an underdog in actual WWE why not have a Turn the Tide like card in the Backstage.

I Aims Ta Be Startin' Sump'tin (Throwback)
Backstage Area
At the end of the Pre-Match phase search your arsenal for the card titled "Trailer Park Trash", and your Backlash deck for the card titled "WWE Crusierweight Title Belt" put those cards in your ring area, and they are considered permanent.
Your Superstar specific actions are F: 0.
"If your opponent has at least 10 more fortitude than you, discard 3  cards and you may play a maneuver as if you have your opponent's fortitude rating, and that maneuver can not be reversed."
RMS
Unique

You might want to up the number he discards depending on balance but I think it's fair.

That way he gets a fair chance with his ability, and a nice way to come back as he's getting smacked.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 11:21:42 PM by The Hurricane »
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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2008, 07:22:25 AM »
Has my greatness overwhelmed this thread, or did everyone stop caring?  :P
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Offline CreedP

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2008, 07:36:57 AM »
Dude, if anyone would bump their own thread (which isn't allowed here anyway, heh) wouldn't it be me?  :)

Also note I haven't responded to ANYONE yet, because last night was all about getting my PC up and running (finally!) and building my g/f's computer desk.  I'll read these over and respond later today, probably to everyone.\

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Offline CreedP

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Re: A Noble Challenge... :)
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2008, 01:59:37 PM »
Okay, working backwards....

I Aims Ta Be Startin' Sump'tin (Throwback)
One smack in the back of the head for trying to resurrect my least favorite Raw Deal card title ever.  Seriously, who said that and when?!  :)  Anyway...

If your opponent has at least 10 more fortitude than you, discard 3  cards and you may play a maneuver as if you have your opponent's fortitude rating, and that maneuver can not be reversed.
You might want to up the number he discards depending on balance but I think it's fair.
Possible, but it leads back to the same 'stall, stall, PUNCH' build without having to play the actions/antics.  Not saying its a bad idea, just that its what Noble already does most of the time.  :)

It's currently too easy to get rid of title belts, so I'm wondering if your Cruiser Weight belt should be permanent.
That's what I was thinking too, same for Trailer Park Trash.
Both valid points, okay...  :)

1: Give him a an opening maneuver that he could search for and throw to get on the board, but that also had some kind of ACE ability that could place it back in his ringside to reuse.
2: Give him a "Fixer Feud" like other superstars that would augment/alter his ability or it's wording.
3: A card that would turn Trailer Park Trash into fuel for some other ability.
4: Give him a card that does nothing when played, but plays off his ability, like Destiny for Randy Orton.

1. The 'one-shot' is already accomplished by Let Me Get a Shot In, but you run the risk of heavy reversal damage, possibly fatal, once they have the necessary Fortitude for you to play it.
2. This card exists already (in general concept), Old School Wrestling Match TB - its basically the Aggression Rule from Revolution as a Stipulation.
3. Interesting, though it leads to abuse when you get cheap Foritude by putting things like Garbage Can Lid TB into the Ring, heh.  Plus TPT is a decent Action, but if you're putting one in the Ring to start, you're only packing 1 (maybe 2 if the effect differs from the Redneck Rampage BSC example)
4. Interesting idea as well, but it doesn't feel like enough, even with a little boosting.  Plus, since we're only making ONE card for Noble (that part's non-negotiable, heh), it won't be eough on its own.  It would definitely be a good card for a new Superstar, or possibly in general use...

All  ideas are good in their own right, and if we were remaking Jamie Noble (no. heh), these would make solid ideas for support cards.  Alas, there's enough Superstars to find images & make cards for already....

Let's run with the following and see if it gives him enough ilfe / makes him interesting enough without being too good...
Redneck Rampage
Backstage Card
Search your Arsenal for Trailer Park Trash and your Backlash for Cruiserweight Title Belt, put those cards in your Ring, and shuffle your Arsenal.
Your Noble-specific Action cards are F:0 and Multi, and the Activated Card Effect of Managed by Nidia cannot be reversed.
When you have less Fortitude than your opponent, your non-unique maneuvers are -#F, where # is your opponent's Fortitude.
Unique

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