Author Topic: The Cutting Room Floor  (Read 1030 times)

Offline CreedP

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The Cutting Room Floor
« on: May 30, 2020, 09:55:15 AM »
Hi guys!

Since I've had Raw Deal on the brain lately, I thought it might be fun to review some of the cards and ideas that didn't make it into the game.  Back in the Comic Images days, this could happen because the Superstar was no longer with the company, or because WWE didn't approve the card title / concept / picture / whatever.  But in Virtual there were usually other reasons entirely for deciding not to use some of the concepts.

As the title seems especially timely, I'll start with this one:


We All Wear Masks...
Pre-match Event
Cannot be packed by Eugene, JBL, Raw Guest Host, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Tag Teams or Stables.  Cannot be blanked.
When packing this card, your Frankie Takes Ho-llywood is Unique; when this card is in your Ring, that card does not take up a Pre-match slot in your Ring and it is Permanent.
Before each of your Draw Segments, put up to 3 cards under this card into your Backlash.
ACE: During your turn, name a Raw Deal Superstar, and then put 4 random cards from your Backlash under this card and you count as the named superstar instead until the start of your next turn.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent


The idea started easy enough, what if those little perks on cards could be added by just spoofing the name of your Superstar? Even without gaining any traits, just the name, several ideas came to mind. One use would be changing your name to get those Movie card 'cannot be reversed' perks. Another might be naming your Superstar Mae Young for discounts on Sloppy...Very Sloppy. There's also a number of Superstars with remakes or tag teams where certain perks aren't available, but could be if they snuck in with a fake nametag.

Design-wise, the idea was a hefty cost that could be recouped but not easily, so this effect couldn't be used every turn. I don't recall why the Frankie idea was co-opted in, whether that's a concept with adding to a future card is out of my hands now, heh.

To be clear, this card didn't even see much playtesting, as multiple issues sprang up immediately. For one, several Superstars could evade the critical Shenanigans debuffs by using the Raw Deal equivalent of 'fake mustache and glasses' - Hello, My Name is NOT Eugene, please eat copious amounts of reversal damage, haha. (I don't recall why Raw Guest Host was on the list, but it made sense at the time)

Often the reality of 'fun idea' just doesn't work in game as expansive as Raw Deal, but it's an amusing thought. Perhaps this concept could be used as a Superstar-specific idea, locked down with the necessary restrictions on the Superstar Card, but it has a high potential for abuse, and is unlikely to be worth the trouble of extensive playtesting necessary.

For what it's worth, though, here's the card image:



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Offline MonkeyLord13

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2020, 10:57:55 AM »
I really like the concept, but see the potential problems. Might be fun as a concept for Damien Sandow support as another way to represent that period where he was coming out with a new gimmick/impression every week.


Offline BigPimpin

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2020, 08:07:22 PM »
Good Lord, I never thought I'd see that image again. 

I can fill in a couple of the blanks here:

1) Raw Guest Host was on there because All Axxess was the dominant format at the time, and allowing RGH to have Masks would allow him to be whoever the cornered cards he was packing wanted him to be.  I forget the specific example at the time, but if you look at all the available "Revolution X Is In My Corner" cards and the specific moves they'd allow RGH access to, it was deemed to be too much since the benefits were designed for someone else. 

2) Frankie made it on there because at the time, we all felt that of the "prize" cards that came from the previous Raw Deal universe, Frankie's needed the most help (yeah, don't laugh too hard...) if you counted Can U Believe The Witte Retort as a TB for My New Gimmick.  Yes, it allegedly didn't turn out how Frankie had desired it (the rumor at the time of creation is that it was supposed to be a stopper for Turn 1 plunge decks like Evolution, but the Comic Images design committee left the Permanent trait off of the card), but I think it's aged really well in an era where RMS on reversals can be a good thing to have.  The original perk had a small list of usually masked superstars (IIRC Rey Jr, Sting, and Sin Cara) that could draw one card at the end of the Pre-match phase, which was, shall we say, less than helpful.

I do hope that the effect can be used if we could find the right superstar(s) to use it for - really the Shenanigans-nerf dodging was the critical nail in the coffin for this particular card, so if a single superstar gets it, they won't have to worry about the name-based Shenanigans nerfs at all.
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Offline CreedP

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2020, 11:30:25 AM »
Here's another one picked from the dust on the cutting room floor, from the Virtual 5 era:

Last Man Standing Match
Pre-match Stipulation
Can only be played when there is a Feud in any Ring.
No player may search his Arsenal with non-Unique cards or win the game via Count Out.
When a player is about to lose the game via Pinfall, he randomly reveals 10 cards in his Ringside; when one or more of the revealed cards is a reversal, he removes all revealed reversals from the game and shuffles the remaining revealed cards into his Arsenal, and the game continues.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     RMS logo


It's a fun idea in theory, no 'cheap' wins by Count Out (so to speak), and a way to implement the 10-count concept. To clarify, once you're pinned, this is how it works:

* Grab 10 cards from your Ringside  (if you want to be thematic, reveal them one at a time, heh)
* If none of them are reversals, you didn't answer the count, you lose the game.
* If you do have some reversals, take any red cards out of the 10 you grabbed, remove them from the game, and keep playing.

There's various issues with this, though, mostly in how accessible RFG'ed cards are. In some cases, adding to the RFG stack might actually help rather than being a punishment!  We discussed alternate placement of the cards, perhaps in the Backstage (again, possibly a boon to a few Superstars) or under Last Man Standing itself.

But the other issue Daeva identified was time. Rather than just play a match to completion, you would now have to beat your opponent repeatedly, and during time-limit games this seemed more likely to invoke a draw than to have a winner.  Sure, in untimed matches this is less of an issue, though Last Man Standing would continue to draw out the games longer without necessarily adding to the gameplay experience.

Could this concept still be used?  Perhaps, though it is loaded with other potential issues as written.  Still, it's an amusing idea to review and discuss.

Here's the card image I came up with:



CREED
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Offline Scotty

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 03:24:43 PM »
For the sole reason of game length, I am so happy this never saw the light of day!

Offline The Hurricane

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2020, 06:19:29 PM »
For the sole reason of game length, I am so happy this never saw the light of day!

No kidding. Games can already drag out as is! lol
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Offline CreedP

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2020, 10:35:23 PM »
I was out of town last weekend, we were scouting some potential new homes near the coast, fingers crossed it leads to the move we've waited seven years for.... but ANYway, here's another visit to honor those fallen cards that just didn't make it over the finish line.

This week, it's an idea I'd had during SNME amidst a flurry of nostalgic creations from yesteryear.


THE 1-2-3 KID
Starting Hand Size: 12     Superstar Value: 3
WWF Superstar Ability: Do not draw cards during your Draw Segment. During any player's turn, your Superstar Value is always 0, regardless of other effects.
When you would reveal your hand or your opponent would look at your hand, that effect is canceled; any number of cards that would be chosen by your opponent are chosen randomly.
You may pack High-Flying Style and non-nWo non-Backstage X-Pac cards with only 1 logo.
RMS logo

The general idea was to start with a big hand, but have another way to get cards besides drawing. To make it a 'pre-make' like HBK TB, you would use just the maneuvers and reversals mainly (and Pac's Back) that weren't affiliated with DX or nWo. Since pictures were limited, it would be a promo Superstar with a couple of cards for support. HS/SV are the obvious choices, but Kid didn't feel like a 3SV, so he'd become a 0 instead (great for FLAU etc).

And yes, the 'you can't see my hand' effect was later used for Molly Holly's solo Superstar card.


The Kid's Lightning Speed
Pre-match Event
Cannot be blanked.
At the end of the Pre-match phase, put the top 2 cards from your Arsenal into your Ring face-down.
During your Draw Segment, put the top card of your Arsenal into your Ring face-down, and your opponent randomly chooses 1 face-down card. You may reveal and play the chosen card, and when it is an action, it is -1F; when it is a maneuver, it is +2D and -3F.  When you do not reveal the card, discard 1 card and put the chosen card into your hand.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     WWF logo

A three-card monte of sorts would follow, where 1 card from Arsenal joins the 2 cards face-down, and of the 3 cards, one is either played at a discount, or traded for a card in hand. (1-2-3! haha, yeah you got it already, never mind...)


The Kid's Moonsault
Trademark Finisher / Action
As a maneuver, can be played from Ringside.  Can only be played after a successfully played maneuver or From the Top Rope.
As an action, put this card, up to 1 card removed from the game, and up to 2 cards from your Ringside on the bottom of your Arsenal; draw 3 cards.
When this card is unsuccessfully played, draw up to 1 card.
F: 25     D: 20     SV: 3     Unique     WWF logo

More 1-2-3 goodness. These weren't anywhere near enough to have a good Superstar, but well before more development came into play, the realization hit that we had a ton of Superstars already, and not enough people cared about the Kid to bother.

Could it be done now? Well, yeah, but not everything that can be done, should be done. :)  There's already a glut of Superstars that don't have a good path for support, limited pictures and low depth of character make it tough to creatively add more to their sets if/when they prove to be too weak to bother with. Nikolai Volkoff says hello.

I was fairly proud of the logo, though, rather than a trace job, I worked this one out on my own to resemble a logo seen on another picture. What a waste, heh.



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Offline maskedllama

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2020, 08:26:10 AM »
Dude!! What a cool thread. I can't believe I missed it before!!! 
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Offline CreedP

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2020, 09:27:59 AM »
Thanks, I'll try to update it each weekend, at least until I run out of stuff to write about, heh.

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Offline maskedllama

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2020, 08:41:19 AM »
Good luck with the move!!!  The 1-2-3 Kid idea sounds really interesting.  Seems a bit convoluted and not sure I would have built him, personally, since I already have a Sean Waltman deck, but its a neat idea. 
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Offline CreedP

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2020, 11:05:42 AM »
(Partial cross-post from Discord, in case this looks familiar, heh)

Back in 2006, before the World Championships, I shared an idea with Mike Foley and Barron. I liked how Warlord CCG had a tiered prize system. Basically, certain tournament campaigns offered a shot at a stronger opponent, more powerful than the normal Warlords (think Superstars in RD), called an Overlord. Win the challenge and you get the card, which is neat - they were hard to play normally but not impossible, like a 70F card. BUT you could also use that Overlord card as a ticket to challenge for a Dragonlord (which they'd sign to show it was used), a second tier opponent who could usually produce powerful dragons once a turn.

Anyway, I thought it'd be fun to have an overpowered Superstar that people could play against, and we would only give out a copy to a player who beat the deck.  Mike liked the idea and made up the graphics for it, a Superstar that used other Superstar card interchangeably like Enforcers (HBK, Game, Chyna, etc).

So here's what we came up with:


DX     (Challenge)
Starting Hand Size: 2     Superstar Value: X+2
Tag Team Superstar Ability: X = Your opponent's Superstar Value.
Reveal the Shawn Michaels Superstar card and hide The Game, Chyna, Road Dogg, X-Pac, and Billy Gunn Superstar cards in your Backstage area.  When any of these cards are revealed their Superstar Ability is added to your Superstar Ability.
You may pack up to 24 cards with any of those logos of the above listed Superstars along with Triple H, but you do not count as those Superstars.
Whenever you play the card titled S*CK IT!, hide the revealed Superstar card in your Backstage area and reveal a different one.
Your opponent may not win via a card effect.

Originally, the DX design had a 7 Hand Size and 11 Superstar Value, but Mike felt this was more 'balanced'. For the purposes of the challenge, HBK's additional Arsenal and Backlash space were ruled to exist while packing, that's why he was revealed first.

Also, no cheap tricks, you had to beat these guys straight up.  :)


Awesome Pyro! – Throwback
Backstage Card
Your opponent's Pre-match cards with the words "blank," "switch," or "look at his hand" or any other degenerate wording of such monkeyshines in the text are considered blank.
Unique

The idea here was to block I'm Gonna Break You, FLAU TB, and Switcheroo, but Mike added in the 'monkeyshines' with could be expanded for anything we wanted (like Kill Da Beat, what was commonly used in these challenges) but wasn't actually needed, haha.


Creed the Roadie Wannabe     (+Victoria, Fabulous Moolah, Mae Young, Elijah Jones logos)
Backstage Card
Your Starting Hand Size is +3 if you give your opponent 3 Raw Deal cards from your collection to keep, or if you provide him with a bottled water at the beginning of the match.
Unique

This was an amusing throw in, since Elijah - my former Con traveling buddy - won GenCon 2005's big qualifier with Victoria. For those who didn't meet me at a convention, I normally carried a hefty bag with tons of decks and spare cards, and I always have a water bottle with me - thus the text. (Note: these are all marked as 'FAKE' and not legal for play, haha)


S*CK IT! - Throwback
Action: Set-up
When played, choose one: every player must discard his entire hand; or every player must place all cards in his Ring area into his Ringside pile.
If the cards titled I've Got Two Words For Ya! and S*CK IT! Are in your Ring area you win via Count Out victory.
F: 2     D: 0

Not Unique, there were actually 5 copies, each with a member's picture. I don't believe the win condition was ever used, though. Much like Two Words, though, this card doesn't age well in Virtual - discard your hand to make your opponent discard half his hand?  Probably Only if you have a shot at the win condition.

Someone beat Mike once, so he gave them a set, I remain undefeated though, haha. I ran it a couple times at Cons, often using Outsider Distraction with The Best Surprises to make it Permanent. People usually tried to win with Kill Da Beat to limit Pre-match, but that level of Superstar power was too much (especially with 2 sets of Trademarks once Revolution 3 came out).


So - could this be used?  It actually has been! This is were the Spirit Squad concept came from, but clearly with more toned-down support designed for this purpose.

Also, since DX reformed that summer and Chris Masters was ixnayed as a Superstar, I asked that we make a DX promo card instead, since we likely had a limited window to do so. It was a great surprise at GenCon that year, though in retrospect, we should have had some limitation or downside, since HHH/HBK were far less appealing when you could pack both sets of cards in DX... oh well.

Anyway, while it was never a legal card, here's the image from the Cutting Room Floor:



CREED
Whoops, didn't notice the line on the Cancelled stamp until posting, oh well...
"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world." - Bill Bullard

Offline Daeva

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2020, 04:36:58 PM »
As it turns out, the one loss that DX had was from one of my local guys, running the A-Train deck that I played and went 3-1 with in Worlds the next day.
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Offline Greatjawa

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Re: The Cutting Room Floor
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2020, 01:52:43 PM »
I still have a full set of the DX cards that I was sent when I was a manager.  Was fun to play that at League night.