Raw Deal > Virtual Raw Deal

2020 Bottom of the Barrel Thread

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As a designer of cards, I usually have a lot of my focus on the top-end of the Raw Deal metagame when comparing and contrasting superstars with one another.  Example - for the Then/Now/Forever set, I asked myself things like "is Pete Dunne Tier 1?", or "what's the optimal Jim Cornette build?".  Every now and again, though, I like to take my focus off of the top of the mountain and see who's at the bottom with no hope of climbing.  That's where I'd like to ask for assistance from the guys and gals that make up the Raw Deal universe.

I'd like you guys and gals to tell me who are, in your opinion, the "bad" superstars in Raw Deal.  Those that, no matter what is done with them, are just not cut out to win matches consistently.  So we can keep this orderly and track able, I'd like everyone to keep the following in mind:

1) I'm looking for between 1 and 3 superstars that, in your opinion, just don't have the ability to "cut it" in Raw Deal these days.  If there's more, put 'em down.

2) Reasons and/or constructive criticism would be helpful so we can understand why the superstar is "bad". 

3) Please keep in mind that personal attacks or other breaches of TCO's rules will not be tolerated.  This is not an excuse to reach out and flame someone on how a superstar is designed.

To give an example, I'll put one down I've had in the back of my head to start this off (and yes I know I'm wordy, you don't have to be as in depth):

Rene Dupree - Despite an early hand advantage through Pre-Match cards like Managed by Fifi and It's Hard Being This Original, if Rene can't take that early advantage into an insurmountable lead, he'll eventually be ground to dust.  Also, AIUU's discard text has lost a lot of power since all Rookie/NXT superstars are immune to it.  Everyone around him does what he does but better - British Bulldog has no pack restriction can take Backlash cards from his Ring as well as Backlash and recover, Latino Cheat can pack the normal compliment of reversals (his restriction is on playing more than one, not packing more than one) and has a superior give-back of searching for cards instead of drawing. 

Looking forward to hear who you think is the bottom of the barrel going into 2020.

The Short List (from comments below):
Rene Dupree
Honky Tonk Man
Bam Bam Bigelow
Dean Malenko
Ted DiBiase Jr
Trish Stratus
Vickie Guerrero
The Revival
The Colons
Gene Snitsky
Paul Heyman
Santino Marella
Legion Of Doom
Wade Barrett
Mr. Perfect
Stevie Richards
Team Hell No
Raw Guest Host
Natural Disasters
Muhammad Hassan
The Ultimate Warrior
Cactus Jack

A while ago I posted my thoughts on Bam Bam Bigelow needing a boost. I'll insert my OG post here:

--- Quote from: Hogtrail on January 11, 2019, 10:53:28 AM ---
Let me preface this post by saying that this isn't an attack or criticism of the virtual team or anyone on TCO. This is mearly one players opinion.

I feel like there is no reason to play as Bam Bam Bigelow and he needs help. He's probably the least playable superstar from V4. His superstar ability costs too much for too little. Sure, he gets Million Dollar Corporation support, but those cards don't help him that much compared to the other members. His ability to make Cartwheel an omni reversal is his best quality, but his specific reversal makes cartwheel worse.

There are other superstars that do what he does, only better (Vader, Rusev, RVD, even someone like Big Pappa Pump can discount their cards at much less of a cost). And by the time you have enough stun value in your ring, you probably already have enough Fortitude to play the card anyway. I know Bigelow can discount any CARD, but a lot of actions don't make it into a lot of decks due to the fear of OSWM.

His first maneuver is all but guaranteed to get Restricted Use/Reach Exceeds Your Grasp, if not reversed regularly from hand.

Why restrict his volley maneuvers with Asbury Park? Bookerman has a much more powerful ability to protect his volley moves, and much better support. Bam Bam feels restricted to Tech Drop Kicks, DLB, and a few high risks. It's very hard to get started with him.

Bigelow's specific cards are decent, but not all THAT great, and he doesnt have many.

I think if Bigelow got an ECW Backstage card, it would make his MUCH more playable. He could pack house that hardcore built, discount his Foreign Objects (a lot of which have stun value), then his Ability would help more and earlier, and he wouldn't take non-unique damage to his FO's.

Again, I only bring this up because you guys actually take player feedback into account. And I'm also willing to listen to other players who may have had a successful Bam Bam build.

--- End quote ---

TL;DR - Other people do Bam Bam better than Bam Bam and I feel there is no reason to choose Bigelow over those superstars.

Seems a lot of the WWF guys are on this list, eh?
Bam Bam would qualify
Yoko needs some updating
And I felt the same about Honky Tonk Man ....I look at his cards and I wanted to try him....but he doesn't seem to bring much to the table, even with heel cheater being the preferred choice....he's still....eh

I need to look deeper but my first thought is honky

Thanks all.  I'm keeping a short list at the top of the thread so we can keep track.

It might be me, but I don't see much reason to build any of the "get things from ringside" decks since Lesnar got his backstage all those years ago. He just outshines other superstars by doing the same thing, but for free and mostly protected.
That brings me to Dean Malenko.

Everytime I get myself to build Dean Malenko, I feel like everything he does could be done easier by Lesnar, with better support and a way better backlash reversal TMF.
Taker recovers stuff from ringside by discarding cards, but he also has much better support and a miriad of builds other than "play psychology".
If you add the fact that other decks don't remove the card plaayed when unsuccessful, I don't see much reason to build the Iceman


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