Author Topic: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever  (Read 4559 times)

Offline Kingsantino92

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2019, 12:30:06 PM »
I'm asking because she's not a diva which allows her to pack Era of the Superstar then her ability allows her to pack cards as if shes a diva which would allow her to pack feminine wiles. I just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting.

Offline ironteeth

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2019, 10:25:32 PM »
Pete is looking good. And I love that the picture for The Bruiserweight contains the UK belt, which, in my opinion is the best looking belt in WWE, and maybe even all of pro wrestling
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Offline Eric RD

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2019, 04:15:48 AM »
This is the last spoiler we'll be sharing before the set releases. Hopefully you'll be able to print and play everything online by the end of the 24th.

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Offline Daeva

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2019, 09:49:11 AM »
Can Stacy Evans pack both Feminine Wiles and Era of the Superstar?

No, and neither can Lacey Evans. The "you can't pack cards as if you were a Diva" text on The Era of the Superstar supersedes Lacey's permission from her Ability. You get one or the other, not both.
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Offline MonkeyLord13

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2019, 09:56:41 AM »
This is the last spoiler we'll be sharing before the set releases. Hopefully you'll be able to print and play everything online by the end of the 24th.

Study the Tapes (TB)
At the end of the Pre-match phase Promo:4 and remove the cards not chosen from the game.
When this card is in your Ring, your opponent's Superstar Specific non-Trademark Finisher hybrid reversals do no more than 5D.

I'm not clear on what reversals are having their damage limited. Hybrids played as a reversal are only a reversal, not a Trademark Finisher, so we're not talking about cards that are printed as hybrid with both types of TMF and Reversal. That would seem to indicate that we're talking about Superstar Specific cards that are hybrid reversals played against non-Trademark Finisher cards. So, for example, if Chris Jericho played his Springboard Drop Kick against his opponent's Roll out of the Ring, it's capped at 5D.

Is that right?

Offline Eric RD

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2019, 11:18:11 AM »
This is the last spoiler we'll be sharing before the set releases. Hopefully you'll be able to print and play everything online by the end of the 24th.

Study the Tapes (TB)
At the end of the Pre-match phase Promo:4 and remove the cards not chosen from the game.
When this card is in your Ring, your opponent's Superstar Specific non-Trademark Finisher hybrid reversals do no more than 5D.

I'm not clear on what reversals are having their damage limited. Hybrids played as a reversal are only a reversal, not a Trademark Finisher, so we're not talking about cards that are printed as hybrid with both types of TMF and Reversal. That would seem to indicate that we're talking about Superstar Specific cards that are hybrid reversals played against non-Trademark Finisher cards. So, for example, if Chris Jericho played his Springboard Drop Kick against his opponent's Roll out of the Ring, it's capped at 5D.

Is that right?

The end result is the same as you described and you're correct that the wording is messy.

The goal with this card is to affect the opponent's printed non-Trademark Finisher hybrid reversal.

If Jericho his a Springboard Dropkick as a reversal its 5D, if he hits a Codebreaker its doing the full damage.
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Offline MonkeyLord13

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2019, 11:31:18 AM »
Thanks for the clarification. I love that Study the Tapes got a throwback. There was a time when it and Superior Training were in every deck I built.

Offline Scotty

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2019, 01:38:09 PM »
Thanks for the clarification. I love that Study the Tapes got a throwback. There was a time when it and Superior Training were in every deck I built.

I still play Study the Tapes OG quite often. Love that hand knowledge.

Offline Eric RD

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2019, 01:54:36 PM »
Thanks for the clarification. I love that Study the Tapes got a throwback. There was a time when it and Superior Training were in every deck I built.

Thanks for bringing it up. It's easy for us to miss some wording when we have an intent in mind. Spoiler season has multiple uses!
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Offline Eric RD

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2019, 06:29:26 AM »
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone. Then, Now, Forever is now available to download and enjoy!
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Offline Eric RD

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2019, 07:10:34 AM »

This will act similar to how Little She Devil resolves. When it's successful you choose which effect you're using and it will resolve to the appropriate area.

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1 D: 0

My concern is that, since intent doesn't have to be declared until it is successfully played, can you play it at 0F but use the first effect instead?

Since this card, and it's Smackdown variant, both have differing costs, you will have to announce which effect you are intending on using when played. This will be important for some reversals that look for Fortitude costs of a card.
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Offline maskedllama

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2019, 01:16:56 PM »
Merry Christmas and thank you for the gift!!  I look forward to building these new stars when I get k back home.
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Offline CRASHER

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2019, 01:37:16 PM »

This will act similar to how Little She Devil resolves. When it's successful you choose which effect you're using and it will resolve to the appropriate area.

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1 D: 0

My concern is that, since intent doesn't have to be declared until it is successfully played, can you play it at 0F but use the first effect instead?

Since this card, and it's Smackdown variant, both have differing costs, you will have to announce which effect you are intending on using when played. This will be important for some reversals that look for Fortitude costs of a card.

Wait...I'm not so sure about that....when you play little she devil you don't choose the effect until it's successful.... potentiality rule and all
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Offline Eric RD

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #63 on: December 24, 2019, 01:47:47 PM »

This will act similar to how Little She Devil resolves. When it's successful you choose which effect you're using and it will resolve to the appropriate area.

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1 D: 0

My concern is that, since intent doesn't have to be declared until it is successfully played, can you play it at 0F but use the first effect instead?

Since this card, and it's Smackdown variant, both have differing costs, you will have to announce which effect you are intending on using when played. This will be important for some reversals that look for Fortitude costs of a card.

Wait...I'm not so sure about that....when you play little she devil you don't choose the effect until it's successful.... potentiality rule and all

There's is a different cost for each effect in this case. One is 1F, the other is 0F. Little She Devil is played, then the option to choose is presented after the fact.
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Offline DebuRaito

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #64 on: December 25, 2019, 03:05:51 AM »
Since intent is declared, does it wipe out potentiality rule from the other unintended effects?

E.g. choosing first effect of Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle, will it be able to be reversed by cards that cause opponent to discard (don't hate the player)

Offline dilbert505

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2019, 07:11:22 PM »
Hey, everyone. I stayed out of this discussion temporarily while I was double checking my interpretation, but I wanted to issue a clarification here. Eric's misinterpreted how the "Watch Women" cards interact with Lacey's ability and Act Like a Lady.

To pull in the relevant card text:


LACEY EVANS
Starting Hand Size: 5     Superstar Value: 1
Superstar Ability: You may pack cards as if you are a Diva, but you do not count as a Diva. Your cards with 'diva', 'woman' or 'female' in the text or title are considered to have 'lady' in the title. During each of your turns, you may overturn 2 cards to put 1 card with 'lady' in the title removed from the game into your hand.

Act Like a Lady
Pre-match Event
Cannot be blanked. Ignore 'male' and 'female' in the text of your non-Multi cards with 'lady' in the title. Your unsuccessfully played cards with 'lady' in title are removed from the game.
ACE: Once during each of your turns, you may put 1 non-Mid-match card with 'lady' in the title from your Ring under your Superstar card and then draw 1 card. Your maneuvers with 'lady' in the title are +1D for every card under your Superstar card.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0

Now, the Watch cards (I'll call them that for simplicity's sake) are made into 'lady' cards by Lacey's ability. At this juncture, Act Like a Lady takes effect, and the words "male" and "female" are ignored.

What you have now is the following:

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle, Lady
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Lady, Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0

Leaving aside the edge case where Lacey's opponent is not a Superstar (i.e. Extremists), all of the criteria on the card are met. The card calculates Fortitude costs in step 2A, and the cost is reduced by 1 (leaving aside, for the moment, any outside effects that might further impact the card.) The fact that the Fortitude reduction appears in the third paragraph of the text box is irrelevant; Fortitude reduction is typically placed first for ease of reading, but that is a convention, not a requirement of the rules.

At this point, when the card is successful, it looks to see if the opponent is a Superstar. This is normally the case, and each effect triggers in turn. So, for Watch Women Wrestle, once the card is successful, Lacey will search for 3 non-unique maneuvers and remove them from the game, the Arsenal is shuffled, Lacey will discard EWWWWW, and the opponent will discard 1 card. For Watch Women Period, Lacey's opponent will discard 3 cards, Lacey will discard EWWWWP, and Lacey will then draw 1 card.

There is no choosing of effects; there is only a check to see if the opponent is a Superstar or not. If they are, all effects will trigger in turn; if they are not, the card does nothing. Little She Devil is not an appropriate precedent, because that card's modular nature is indicated by the word or in its rules text. The Watch cards do not have or listed, nor is there a "choose one" anywhere on the card. You simply do everything.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 07:14:12 PM by dilbert505 »
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Offline MonkeyLord13

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #66 on: December 26, 2019, 06:53:25 AM »
So, for clarification: are Superstars with a modifier (such as GM Superstars, Chairman Superstars, and Tag Team Superstars) considered "Superstars" for cards like EWWWW?

Offline dilbert505

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2019, 07:09:21 AM »
Yes. Any deck whose ability is a ____ Superstar Ability is a Superstar. All the ones you mentioned, as well as Diva Superstars, Cruiserweight Superstars, Rookie Superstars, Legend Superstars, Throwback Superstars, and Stable Superstars, would be impacted by this card. Extremists are the primary exception, as their cards are printed with an Extremist Ability instead. The other exceptions I can identify at the moment are Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, who has a Movie Star Ability, and The Sexy Beast, who has a Huge Rock Star Ability. Note that these cards similarly cannot be affected by things like White Wedding, as they do not have a Superstar Ability to switch.
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Offline DebuRaito

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2019, 07:15:47 AM »
Yes. Any deck whose ability is a ____ Superstar Ability is a Superstar. All the ones you mentioned, as well as Diva Superstars, Cruiserweight Superstars, Rookie Superstars, Legend Superstars, Throwback Superstars, and Stable Superstars, would be impacted by this card. Extremists are the primary exception, as their cards are printed with an Extremist Ability instead. The other exceptions I can identify at the moment are Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, who has a Movie Star Ability, and The Sexy Beast, who has a Huge Rock Star Ability. Note that these cards similarly cannot be affected by things like White Wedding, as they do not have a Superstar Ability to switch.

For the same reason, are these extremist, movie star, huge rock star considered superstar of their respective gender for the "watch" cards played by other non-lacey decks (e.g. trish, torrie etc)?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 07:18:14 AM by DebuRaito »

Offline dilbert505

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2019, 07:36:47 AM »
Yes. Any deck whose ability is a ____ Superstar Ability is a Superstar. All the ones you mentioned, as well as Diva Superstars, Cruiserweight Superstars, Rookie Superstars, Legend Superstars, Throwback Superstars, and Stable Superstars, would be impacted by this card. Extremists are the primary exception, as their cards are printed with an Extremist Ability instead. The other exceptions I can identify at the moment are Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, who has a Movie Star Ability, and The Sexy Beast, who has a Huge Rock Star Ability. Note that these cards similarly cannot be affected by things like White Wedding, as they do not have a Superstar Ability to switch.

For the same reason, are these extremist, movie star, huge rock star considered superstar of their respective gender for the "watch" cards played by other non-lacey decks (e.g. trish, torrie etc)?

They are considered of that gender, but again, unless their card says ____ Superstar Ability, they are not Superstars. The Sexy Beast is a Male Huge Rock Star; Chris Jericho is a Male Superstar. If Trish Stratus plays a Watch card against The Sexy Beast, the card would do nothing, as he is Male, but not a Superstar. (You may want to do this, if you have a card that can only be played after a successfully played action, for example; in this case, if not reversed, none of the criteria on the card would be met, it would resolve to the Ring, and you would then be free to play your next card.)

(Side note for superstars and gender, from the Omni-FAQ: superstars are considered male if at least one wrestler depicted on the card is male, such as with Right to Censor or the Hart Dynasty. A superstar is considered female if all wrestlers depicted on the card are female, for example Lay-Cool or Gail Kim & Molly Holly.)
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Offline tutoman

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2019, 12:56:06 PM »
Hey, everyone. I stayed out of this discussion temporarily while I was double checking my interpretation, but I wanted to issue a clarification here. Eric's misinterpreted how the "Watch Women" cards interact with Lacey's ability and Act Like a Lady.

To pull in the relevant card text:


LACEY EVANS
Starting Hand Size: 5     Superstar Value: 1
Superstar Ability: You may pack cards as if you are a Diva, but you do not count as a Diva. Your cards with 'diva', 'woman' or 'female' in the text or title are considered to have 'lady' in the title. During each of your turns, you may overturn 2 cards to put 1 card with 'lady' in the title removed from the game into your hand.

Act Like a Lady
Pre-match Event
Cannot be blanked. Ignore 'male' and 'female' in the text of your non-Multi cards with 'lady' in the title. Your unsuccessfully played cards with 'lady' in title are removed from the game.
ACE: Once during each of your turns, you may put 1 non-Mid-match card with 'lady' in the title from your Ring under your Superstar card and then draw 1 card. Your maneuvers with 'lady' in the title are +1D for every card under your Superstar card.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0

Now, the Watch cards (I'll call them that for simplicity's sake) are made into 'lady' cards by Lacey's ability. At this juncture, Act Like a Lady takes effect, and the words "male" and "female" are ignored.

What you have now is the following:

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle, Lady
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Lady, Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0

Leaving aside the edge case where Lacey's opponent is not a Superstar (i.e. Extremists), all of the criteria on the card are met. The card calculates Fortitude costs in step 2A, and the cost is reduced by 1 (leaving aside, for the moment, any outside effects that might further impact the card.) The fact that the Fortitude reduction appears in the third paragraph of the text box is irrelevant; Fortitude reduction is typically placed first for ease of reading, but that is a convention, not a requirement of the rules.

At this point, when the card is successful, it looks to see if the opponent is a Superstar. This is normally the case, and each effect triggers in turn. So, for Watch Women Wrestle, once the card is successful, Lacey will search for 3 non-unique maneuvers and remove them from the game, the Arsenal is shuffled, Lacey will discard EWWWWW, and the opponent will discard 1 card. For Watch Women Period, Lacey's opponent will discard 3 cards, Lacey will discard EWWWWP, and Lacey will then draw 1 card.

There is no choosing of effects; there is only a check to see if the opponent is a Superstar or not. If they are, all effects will trigger in turn; if they are not, the card does nothing. Little She Devil is not an appropriate precedent, because that card's modular nature is indicated by the word or in its rules text. The Watch cards do not have or listed, nor is there a "choose one" anywhere on the card. You simply do everything.

I'm sorry if it might sound redundant, but since English isn't my first language, i just want to make sure i'm reading this right.

When i play EWWWW or EWWWP, i get both effects?

Offline dilbert505

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2019, 01:09:12 PM »
That's correct. Lacey gets to do everything on the card against anyone who is a Superstar.
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Offline tutoman

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2019, 04:27:01 PM »
This is the last spoiler we'll be sharing before the set releases. Hopefully you'll be able to print and play everything online by the end of the 24th.



How does this interact with Fin Balor? does he get to put the non-chosen cards under his Superstar card?

Offline dilbert505

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2019, 06:05:45 PM »
Yes. Finn’s ability is a replacement effect, and if he wants to, he can put the cards not chosen under his face card instead.
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Offline KD8ESU

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Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« Reply #74 on: December 27, 2019, 09:51:09 AM »
That's correct. Lacey gets to do everything on the card against anyone who is a Superstar.

Can I disagree?  Let me explain.


LACEY EVANS
Starting Hand Size: 5     Superstar Value: 1
Superstar Ability: You may pack cards as if you are a Diva, but you do not count as a Diva. Your cards with 'diva', 'woman' or 'female' in the text or title are considered to have 'lady' in the title. During each of your turns, you may overturn 2 cards to put 1 card with 'lady' in the title removed from the game into your hand.


Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0


I don't want to be pedantic (ok, I do; I like to), however, my understanding is that "woman" and "women" are not the same word.
If it was intended to interact that way, an emergency errata may be needed.
hXi