Author Topic: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"  (Read 282 times)

Offline Nicodemvs

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Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« on: November 20, 2019, 03:19:57 PM »
Does it stop card effects from searching off the discard effects they have?

Example: giant head butt does it stop the search effect becuz the card is removed from game? Or do I still get to search but the discarded cards removed. (The discarded cards even fort)

Offline CRASHER

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 05:15:08 PM »
If they discard for chain they can still search for a chain card since little retort is just re-directing the card elsewhere, it would have to specifically check for the cards in the ringside pile for the effect to fail
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Offline Nicodemvs

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 06:03:25 PM »
So is that a yes or no for the giant headbutt?

Offline BALLS

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2019, 06:55:02 AM »
The discard card is removed from the game. The search will go through.

Can U Believe the Witte Retort?
Mid-match Action / Reversal: Special
As an action, choose 1 card in your Ring area. That card is Permanent.
As a reversal, can only be played when your opponent discards any number of cards.
When an opponent’s card causes him to discard any number of cards that are not Heat cards or cards with the word “dynamic” in the title, they are removed from the game instead of put into his Ringside pile.
Permanent
F: 0 D: 0

Giant Head Butt
Strike + Strike + Strike
This card requires 3 reversals to be reversed, instead of 2.
When successfully played, randomly discard 1 card. If that card’s Fortitude is an odd number, your opponent may search his Arsenal for 1 card, put it in his hand, and shuffle his Arsenal; if that card’s Fortitude has an even number, you may search your Arsenal for 1 card, put it in your hand, and shuffle your Arsenal.
Multi
Unique
SV: 2
F: 0 D: 10

Offline CRASHER

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2019, 05:17:04 AM »
Quote
discard any number of cards that are not Heat cards or cards with the word “dynamic” in the title, they are removed from the game instead of put into his Ringside pile.

Gotta read the whole line sir.... they are discarded, but they go to RFG instead of ringside pile..... replacement effect sir
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Offline Hogtrail

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2019, 06:17:25 AM »
Andres head butt doesnt specify that the card has to go into the ringside pile in order to get the effect, so the card would work normally even if the discarded card is RFG instead.
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Offline Keith0913832

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2019, 09:57:26 AM »
Sir, per the rules what does the glossary say about discarding...

Discard
-Discarding is taking a card from your Hand and placing it in the Ringside Pile.
-Discarding may be done randomly due to a specific card effect.
-There is no maximum hand size in Raw Deal.  You do not have to discard due to having too many cards in your hand.

Can U Believe the Witte Retort?
-As always, a reversal can only be played on an opponent's turn; however, this card does not reverse the effect or card that triggers it.  EXAMPLE:  Sgt Slaughter discards an Elbow to the Face to use his Superstar Ability, so his opponent plays Witte Retort; however, this does not prevent Slaughter from getting a Throwback maneuver.
-The third effect listed will trigger if the discard effect comes from an opponent's card (but not a Superstar Ability), regardless whether it is a played card or an effect (unless the discarded cards are Heat or have 'dynamic' in the title.)  EXAMPLE:  A player discards Kick to activate Chicago Street Fight, so the Kick is removed from the game.

Giant Head Butt
-If Giant Head Butt is reversed by a reversal or effect that completely reverses a Multi, no further reversing is necessary.
-If the randomly-discarded card is F: 0, Andre will search for a card, as zero is an even number.
-If there is no card in hand to be discarded, there is no search effect.

Offline Hogtrail

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2019, 02:17:13 PM »
Giant Head Butt
Strike + Strike + Strike
This card requires 3 reversals to be reversed, instead of 2.
When successfully played, randomly discard 1 card. If that card’s Fortitude is an odd number, your opponent may search his Arsenal for 1 card, put it in his hand, and shuffle his Arsenal; if that card’s Fortitude has an even number, you may search your Arsenal for 1 card, put it in your hand, and shuffle your Arsenal.
Multi
Unique
SV: 2
F: 0      D: 10

The act of discarding occurs, Andre's headbutt looks at the Fortitude, the card is removed from the game. Andre's headbutt doesnt specify that the discarded card has to go into the ringside pile, and Witte Retort INSTEAD removes the discarded card from the game.
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Offline Eric RD

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2019, 03:49:23 PM »
Witte Retort modifies existing rule for the discarded cards destination. It is still considered a discard despite being removed from the game.

This is similar to how Lita can pack Lita's DDT, an extra 15 cards in Shawn Michael's and cannot pack Step Aside with A Revolution of the Mind. The cards are modifying the rules.
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Offline Nicodemvs

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2019, 06:17:49 PM »
So much reading so much back and forth XD so is the TL DR for people who didn't just read a billion paragraphs of back and forth.  simply that the card is discarded triggering headbutts effect for odds and even fortitude amount that triggers search for a card it's removed from the game along with any cards discarded after that point correct? Even simpler version Andre plays headbutt discards a card with even Superstar value searches for what he wants the discarded cards removed from the game correct?

Offline Keith0913832

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2019, 06:27:33 PM »
The discard card is removed from the game. The search will go through.

Can U Believe the Witte Retort?
Mid-match Action / Reversal: Special
As an action, choose 1 card in your Ring area. That card is Permanent.
As a reversal, can only be played when your opponent discards any number of cards.
When an opponent’s card causes him to discard any number of cards that are not Heat cards or cards with the word “dynamic” in the title, they are removed from the game instead of put into his Ringside pile.
Permanent
F: 0 D: 0

Giant Head Butt
Strike + Strike + Strike
This card requires 3 reversals to be reversed, instead of 2.
When successfully played, randomly discard 1 card. If that card’s Fortitude is an odd number, your opponent may search his Arsenal for 1 card, put it in his hand, and shuffle his Arsenal; if that card’s Fortitude has an even number, you may search your Arsenal for 1 card, put it in your hand, and shuffle your Arsenal.
Multi
Unique
SV: 2
F: 0 D: 10

This is the answer, everything else is explaining why the answer is this.

Offline Nicodemvs

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2019, 07:37:12 PM »
Awesome much appreciated and I do appreciate the breaking down of why things interact the way they do and what's going on which helps much more card questions get alleviated from just understanding but also really do appreciate the simple this equals that

Offline Daeva

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Re: Rules question for "Can U Believe the Witte Retort?"
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2019, 12:38:47 PM »
I've excised the pointless rabbit trail from this thread so it can focus on the correct answer: Witte Retort doesn't change the fact that cards were discarded.
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