Author Topic: The extent of Elias ability Qns  (Read 398 times)

Offline DebuRaito

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The extent of Elias ability Qns
« on: October 20, 2019, 09:09:03 AM »
So since Elias is one of the newer superstar in V10, I have came across a couple of uncertainties regarding the extend of his ability, would appreciate if any Rules Guru can help me with it.

Scenario 1: Elias in Cage Match

If Elias played Puppies TB in a cage match and try to convert it into shuffling RFG (which is half, rounded up by default), will the cards shuffle from RFG be 7 divided by 2 equal to 3.5 round up to 4? Or would it be 7 minus 1 from cage match equal 6, divide by 2 equal 3?

Scenario 2: Elias in HiaC

If Elias is trapped in HiaC, would Elias playing Puppies TB allowing him to convert the shuffling from Ringside to RFG and therefore bypassing the entire Ringside lockdown from HiaC?

Scenario 3: When Elias has no Ringside

Will Elias playing Puppies TB be able to convert the shuffling from Ringside to RFG when he has no cards in Ringside in the first place?

Scenario 4: Specific Shuffling

For this Scenario, I will use the card Chained Heat, which when played as an Action, will allow the shuffling of 2 chain cards from Ringside. Will Elias be able to convert the shuffle from Ringside to RFG when he has neither Chain cards in his Ringside nor RFG? Does the replacement effect from his ability negate the specific cards required to shuffle?

Referenced Cards in the Qns:

ELIAS
Starting Hand Size: 6     Superstar Value: 1
Superstar Ability: When you would shuffle cards from your Ringside into your Arsenal, you may instead shuffle half that many cards removed from the game, rounded up, into your Arsenal.
You can pack Playin' a Mean Tune. You cannot pack Divine Intervention.

Old School Cage Match
Pre-match Stipulation
When a card that is not printed: Chain, Heat, Stipulation, Superstar-specific, or Unique moves cards from any Ringside, the number of cards moved is reduced by 1.
When Back to Basics is in your Ring, your Pre-match Capacity is +3, and your opponent cannot play I'm Gonna Break You.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     RMS logo

Puppies! Puppies!
Action
Cannot be played when your opponent is a Female Superstar.
Shuffle up to 7 cards from your Ringside pile into your Arsenal and draw 2 cards.
Throwback
F: 14 D: 0

Hell in a Cell Match
Pre-match Stipulation
Run-in cards cannot be played and no card or card effect can move any number of cards from any Ringside pile.
Cards with the Chris Jericho, Kane, Mankind, Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Triple H, Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Cactus Jack, Deadman Inc, or Shawn Michaels logos are not affected by this card.
Active
Permanent
F: 0 D: 0

Chained Heat
Action: Chain / Reversal: Special
As an action, discard this card and then shuffle up to 2 other Chain cards from your Ringside pile into your Arsenal.
As a reversal, you may play this card without discarding any cards, reverse any Chain card and end your opponent's turn.
As a reversal, reverse any Heat card and end your opponent's turn. The reversed card is removed from the game.
F: 0 D: 0

Offline The_Wolfpac

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Re: The extent of Elias ability Qns
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2019, 11:20:17 AM »
Scenario 1:
The text of OSCM specifies moving cards from ringside, removed cards are unaffected by OSCM. Therefore Puppies Puppies (TB) would allow you to shuffle 4 cards removed from the game into your arsenal.

Scenario 2:
The text of OSCM also specifies moving cards from ringside, if you play Puppies Puppies (TB) you can still shuffle from removed.

Scenario 3:
Of course you can.

Scenario 4:
You would still need to shuffle in a chain card from removed into your arsenal.

Offline DebuRaito

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Re: The extent of Elias ability Qns
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2019, 07:25:23 PM »
Your answers differ a little from the group in Discord and no one can come to a conclusion...  :-[

Offline Scotty

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Re: The extent of Elias ability Qns
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 10:36:28 AM »
Ya, I definitely disagree with Wolfpacs first three answers. Let's wait for Daeva to chime in for official ruling.

Also, we'll likely include these 4 questions in a Virtual 10 FAQ we'll be working on shortly.

Offline rachelmon

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Re: The extent of Elias ability Qns
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2019, 09:44:06 PM »
Not sure if anyone have any answers for the above scenarios.
Our playgroup encountered some of the scenarios but couldn't find any answers for those.
Any reply will be appreciated. thanks.

Offline DebuRaito

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Re: The extent of Elias ability Qns
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2019, 07:46:53 AM »
Been about 2 weeks, not sure if anyone knows the correct answers...

Offline Eric RD

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Re: The extent of Elias ability Qns
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2019, 07:50:28 AM »
We have not forgotten about these questions. Just ensuring we have the correct answers within the first reply. I have been unavailable for the last few weeks.

On this subject, we're working on a plan to make sure ruling questions are answered more timely as well. Sorry for the delay DebuRaito, the intent isn't the be rude at all.
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Offline Eric RD

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Re: The extent of Elias ability Qns
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2019, 08:25:20 AM »
Elias' ability will trigger during step 8 of the Timing Breakdown after outside effects have modified any card shuffling abilities/cards due to it stating "instead". So it will look for the grand total when you are about to do any shuffling.

Quote
7a Effects you control (other than this card's text taking place when played or when successful played) that trigger on a Successfully Played card take place. In the event of more than one effect, you choose which order they occur.
7b Effects your opponent controls that trigger on a Successfully Played card take place. Opponent chooses the order. (This is where cards such as Over Sell Maneuver and Sustained Damage are played.)

8 Apply effects listed on the card, unless these effects take place ‘when played’ or ‘when this card is in’ a specified area.

1. Puppies Puppies would only get you 3 cards with Old School Cage Match in play.

2. Elias would not be able to recover any cards while Hell in a Cell is in play.

3. He will not recover any cards with an empty Ringside.

4. With Chained Heat he would have to meet the requirement for the recovery. So only 1 Chain card as long as you have 2 in Ringside.

A good example to compare Elias to is Edge and Christian. With their ability, they need to have the cards in hand to discard in order to be able to draw that amount of cards.

Sorry for the delay on these rulings.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 08:27:34 AM by Eric RD »
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Offline DebuRaito

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Re: The extent of Elias ability Qns
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2019, 09:48:07 AM »
Thanks Eric! No worries on the delay as long as it isn't overlooked.  :)