Author Topic: Poke vs Two Time Two Time  (Read 214 times)

Offline Keith0913832

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Poke vs Two Time Two Time
« on: August 10, 2018, 07:12:53 PM »
Not sure if this should be under Rules or Gen discussion, but it seems abit more rule-ish so it came here.
Why is it that Two Time! Two Time! is able to reverse Poke when Poke has an RMS that explicitly says it can only be reversed by Step Aside?

Does it
1. Qualify as a reversal because it explicitly says it CAN reverse Poke even though Poke say you CANNOT, or
2. Qualify as a reversal because card text naming specific cards will override any reverse restriction?

Two Time! Two Time!
Action + Antic / Reversal: Special
When you have lower Fortitude, can only be reversed by 2 reversal cards. This card is -2F for each D: 2+ card in your opponent's Ring. As an action, choose two of the following: draw up to 2 cards, shuffle up to 2 cards from your Ringside into your Arsenal, remove up to 2 cards in his Ringside from the game, flip up to 2 D: 0 cards in any Ring over, he puts 2 cards from his hand on the bottom of his Arsenal, or he overturns 2 cards. As a reversal, this card is -22F; reverse Poke or Shake, and he discards 2 cards.
Unique, Multi, Permanent, RMS
F:22 D:2

Poke
Strike
Can only be reversed by the card titled Step Aside.
RMS
F:0 D:1

Offline CreedP

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Re: Poke vs Two Time Two Time
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 08:18:01 PM »
Cards that say they can reverse a card inherently have the right to do so, it's from the 'old rules' structure when the game was in print.  Even if the card title is named, that will be enough to grant the reversal right; in other words, the Hardcore Holly GRA ruling says you can name Clutch and now you can Activate that card to reverse Clutch despite the card text.

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Offline DebuRaito

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Re: Poke vs Two Time Two Time
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 08:22:58 PM »
Cards that say they can reverse a card inherently have the right to do so, it's from the 'old rules' structure when the game was in print.  Even if the card title is named, that will be enough to grant the reversal right; in other words, the Hardcore Holly GRA ruling says you can name Clutch and now you can Activate that card to reverse Clutch despite the card text.

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So in your example, if Hardcore Holly GRA name Poke, it can reverse Poke?

Offline Daeva

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Re: Poke vs Two Time Two Time
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 09:03:57 PM »
Re: Two-Time: Rule #0.5 of Raw Deal is "cards do what they say they do"; if something specifically says that it does something normally impossible (barring any outside meddling), then it can perform that impossible act.

Re: Hardcore Holly GRA reversing Poke: No. FAQ:

Hardcore Holly, Guest Ring Announcer
-If Clutch onto Opponent is named, this card is able to reverse Clutch when activated.
-This card cannot be used with Atomic Back Body Drop, Atomic Lariat, and other cards that require specific ‘reversal cards,’ as Hardcore is not a reversal card.

The bolded line would not be present if Hardcore Holly GRA bypassed all reversal restrictions. The Clutch situation is the way that it is because naming Clutch makes Hardcore Holly GRA's ACE specifically reverse Clutch, because... it specifically reverses Clutch and nothing else. Naming Clutch makes it a legal reversal for Clutch because that's what Clutch looks for. (Likewise, naming Clutch with The Hitman will let you use Hitman to hit Clutch.)

So what's the difference? The difference is that Hardcore Holly doesn't specifically say "I reverse Poke," he says "pick something and I'll reverse it, barring anything that stops me." Picking something isn't sufficient to trigger Rule #0.5 (which is a term that I've just coined, since Rule #0 is "the cards trump the rulebook"), it has to be a specific callout printed on the card.

(Fun upshot of this: Oklahoma Roll and Shove Off the Top Rope reverse Superplex TB from hand because they specifically say that they nail Superplex.)
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