Author Topic: Old School Cage Match + Kidney Punch  (Read 219 times)

Offline daftw

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Old School Cage Match + Kidney Punch
« on: June 04, 2018, 07:44:39 AM »
Kidney Punch
Strike: Volley: 7
When this card is in your Ringside pile, during your turn you may remove 4 cards in your Ringside pile from the game and then put this card into your hand.
F: 4     D: 8     SV: 1

Old School Cage Match
Pre-match Stipulation
When a card that is not printed: Chain, Heat, Stipulation, Superstar-specific, or Unique moves cards from any Ringside, the number of cards moved is reduced by 1.
When Back to Basics is in your Ring, your Pre-match Capacity is +3, and your opponent cannot play I'm Gonna Break You.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     RMS logo

Hi everyone, I have another question regarding the above 2 cards.

If Old School Cage Match is in any Ring area, technically I would not be able to take back Kidney Punch by removing 3 cards (-1 due to Old School Cage Match effect and assuming the 3 cards removed were not Kidney Punch). Let's say if 1 of the 3 cards I removed was Kidney Punch, would I be able to put it to my hand because of it's effect?


Offline dilbert505

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Re: Old School Cage Match + Kidney Punch
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 08:03:52 AM »
When Old School Cage Match is in play, you cannot move Kidney Punch to your hand (unless you are Heidenreich, who specifically cannot be prevented from moving Kidney Punch by his opponent.) OSCM reduces the movement of cards from any Ringside by 1: in this case, both the "remove 4 cards" and "put this card into your hand" would be reduced by 1. Since you cannot complete the effect, the effect fizzles.

You also cannot choose to remove Kidney Punch to its own effect and then put it into your hand, because the effect on Kidney Punch states "when this card is in your Ringside pile." If you remove it from your Ringside, it is no longer there to be put into your hand, so you cannot complete the effect, and it fizzles.

Note that if you cannot complete the effect, you cannot start the effect in this case; you may not remove 3 cards to Kidney Punch's effect, since 3 cards is insufficient to pay the cost.
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Offline riothebeast

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Re: Old School Cage Match + Kidney Punch
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 09:11:48 AM »
When Old School Cage Match is in play, you cannot move Kidney Punch to your hand (unless you are Heidenreich, who specifically cannot be prevented from moving Kidney Punch by his opponent.) OSCM reduces the movement of cards from any Ringside by 1: in this case, both the "remove 4 cards" and "put this card into your hand" would be reduced by 1. Since you cannot complete the effect, the effect fizzles.

You also cannot choose to remove Kidney Punch to its own effect and then put it into your hand, because the effect on Kidney Punch states "when this card is in your Ringside pile." If you remove it from your Ringside, it is no longer there to be put into your hand, so you cannot complete the effect, and it fizzles.

Note that if you cannot complete the effect, you cannot start the effect in this case; you may not remove 3 cards to Kidney Punch's effect, since 3 cards is insufficient to pay the cost.

I think you may have forgot about his pre-match that will allow this interaction.

Backed by Road Warrior Animal
Pre-match Event
Your Heidenreich-specific Pre-match cards do not take up a Pre-match slot in your Ring.
Your Heidenreich-specific maneuvers are Trademark Finishers instead.  Your cards with 'punch' in the title are +2D.  Your Kidney Punch cards are considered Superstar-specific, replace 'is in your Ringside' with 'is in your cards removed from the game or Ringside' in the text, you may remove 2 less cards from the game when moving that card from your Ringside, and your opponent cannot prevent you from moving the card to your hand.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     RMS logo
V1

Offline riothebeast

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Re: Old School Cage Match + Kidney Punch
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 09:16:23 AM »
So you can remove 2 kidney punch or 1 kidney and another card to pick up a kidney punch removed from the game. I questioned this interaction several months ago is how i know. EricRD posted a video of his tournament and a player was doing just that and i was unsure how at the time till it was explained about his prematch.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 09:19:20 AM by riothebeast »

Offline CreedP

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Re: Old School Cage Match + Kidney Punch
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 09:38:24 AM »
Superstar specific cards establish exceptions to rules, not the rules themselves, and the OP didn't ask about Heidenreich's Pre-match. Dilbert's information is correct as written.

Rulings made at other tournaments don't create game rules.

We'll get something added to the Virtual FAQ for future reference, but again, what Dilbert said is correct.  Kidney Punch can't resolve the cost of it's effect inside an OS Cage Match, as intended in design.

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Offline dilbert505

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Re: Old School Cage Match + Kidney Punch
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2018, 09:49:49 AM »
When Old School Cage Match is in play, you cannot move Kidney Punch to your hand (unless you are Heidenreich, who specifically cannot be prevented from moving Kidney Punch by his opponent.) OSCM reduces the movement of cards from any Ringside by 1: in this case, both the "remove 4 cards" and "put this card into your hand" would be reduced by 1. Since you cannot complete the effect, the effect fizzles.

You also cannot choose to remove Kidney Punch to its own effect and then put it into your hand, because the effect on Kidney Punch states "when this card is in your Ringside pile." If you remove it from your Ringside, it is no longer there to be put into your hand, so you cannot complete the effect, and it fizzles.

Note that if you cannot complete the effect, you cannot start the effect in this case; you may not remove 3 cards to Kidney Punch's effect, since 3 cards is insufficient to pay the cost.

I think you may have forgot about his pre-match that will allow this interaction.

I think you may not have read my post fully.
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Offline riothebeast

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Re: Old School Cage Match + Kidney Punch
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 09:50:40 AM »
Yeah i didnt my bad lol.

Offline daftw

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Re: Old School Cage Match + Kidney Punch
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2018, 09:33:07 PM »
When Old School Cage Match is in play, you cannot move Kidney Punch to your hand (unless you are Heidenreich, who specifically cannot be prevented from moving Kidney Punch by his opponent.) OSCM reduces the movement of cards from any Ringside by 1: in this case, both the "remove 4 cards" and "put this card into your hand" would be reduced by 1. Since you cannot complete the effect, the effect fizzles.

You also cannot choose to remove Kidney Punch to its own effect and then put it into your hand, because the effect on Kidney Punch states "when this card is in your Ringside pile." If you remove it from your Ringside, it is no longer there to be put into your hand, so you cannot complete the effect, and it fizzles.

Note that if you cannot complete the effect, you cannot start the effect in this case; you may not remove 3 cards to Kidney Punch's effect, since 3 cards is insufficient to pay the cost.

Thank you for the clarification :)