Author Topic: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ  (Read 790 times)

Offline Sandt21

  • Posts: 7
  • +0/-0
    • View Profile
Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ
« on: March 05, 2013, 07:15:15 PM »
First Question: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero reads "Your opponent cannot non-superstar-specific non-D:0 reversals to your non-superstar-specific Smackdown non-F:0 maneuvers." Does that mean that the only thing i can play against Smackdown maneuvers are reversals that are either superstar specific or D:0, or do they have to be superstar specific AND D:0?

Second Question: The Champ's ability reads "When your opponent successfully plays a maneuver of 5D or greater, and it is not reversed from arsenal,  after damage is resolved......". My question is this. When my opponent plays a maneuver of 5D or greater, lets say a throwback running clothesline, may I lower it's damage with Sustained Damage and still use my ability? I only ask because when the maneuver was successfully played and I made the decision of activating sustained damage, it was doing a minimum base damage of five damage, so for all accounts and purposes, it would fit the requirements of my ability. it's only after it met that requirement that I would make the decision of whether or not I would like to lower the damage of the maneuver in question with Sustained Damage, or at least that's how i see it. Let me know if I'm mistaken.

Offline Mitch!

  • 2014 & 2017 Raw Deal World Champion
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5077
  • +240/-240
  • Welcome to....Dubuque, Iowa!
    • View Profile
Re: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2013, 07:45:50 PM »
For Vickie the reversals need to be D:0 or superstar specific. No rev/elbow etc.

And for the champ as long as you don't sustain it below 5D it works.
Mitch of Team Niki Heber and Friends
Only B2B's Deck to Ever Win Worlds!
The Heel HHH of Raw Deal
Your 2017 Raw Deal Champion

Offline Daeva

  • Virtual Contributor, Level 4 Judge, Hope Ender
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 10351
  • +312/-213
  • On Balance, Off Balance, Doesn't Matter
    • View Profile
Re: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 08:30:54 PM »
Yeah, the maneuver has to deal you at least 5 damage for Champ's Ability to fire.

And yes, the reversals need to be one or the other. SS-specific non-D: 0 stuff works (like GORE! GORE! GORE!).
Nate Weiss, Rules Manager & Dream Killer
"You're no fun." -Creed
Timing question? Look here.
Evidence is everything in a court of law. Evidence is also everything in the Rules Forum.

Offline DebuRaito

  • Posts: 634
  • +17/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 06:12:22 AM »
Hi there, just got referenced to this post over a discussion, can I check if there is any contradiction between Daeva's explaination on Champ's ability (above) and Creed's explaination on Kevin Nash's ability (below link)?

http://teamcanadaonline.net///index.php/topic,15600.msg182274.html#msg182274

Offline BALLS

  • Posts: 105
  • +14/-9
  • BALLS TO YOU
    • View Profile
Re: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 03:03:16 AM »
Any follow up on this??

Offline CreedP

  • Voice of Reason
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 20765
  • +486/-368
    • View Profile
Re: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2018, 09:45:37 AM »
Clearly not.  :D

We'll discuss and answer later.

EDIT:  That's later enough.  :)

The wording is different, so the ruling is different.  I'll spell it out for ya like Cass, heh:

KEVIN NASH:  When you successfully play a maneuver that is 10+D or Superstar-specific, after damage is applied,
THE CHAMP:  When your opponent successfully plays a maneuver of 5D or greater, and it is not reversed from arsenal,

Nash checks when the maneuver is successfully played, but doesn't resolve that effect until after damage is applied, but the decision was already made.

Champ checks after the card has not been reversed from Arsenal, which is AFTER you've taken damage, and also AFTER you would have reduced with Sustained Damage.

Clearly this isn't a contradiction, it's two separate rulings based on two differently worded effects.

ON THAT NOTE - we could really do without the negative tone that's been found in the Rules Forum lately.  We do this to help you guys out, of our own free will, to assist the players.  We receive nothing but the occasional gratitude.  We don't owe anyone anything.  So let's be more considerate and remember this is a hobby, we have real lives with jobs and duties.  For example, I work two jobs, I have two disabled people in my home to assist, two dogs to take out, and I'm starting college classes.

Let's be a little more considerate going forward, please and thank you.

CREED
VHS 3: Payback - Out Now!

"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world." - Bill Bullard

Online Hogtrail

  • Posts: 262
  • +14/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 11:25:13 AM »
Clearly not.  :D

We'll discuss and answer later.

EDIT:  That's later enough.  :)

The wording is different, so the ruling is different.  I'll spell it out for ya like Cass, heh:

KEVIN NASH:  When you successfully play a maneuver that is 10+D or Superstar-specific, after damage is applied,
THE CHAMP:  When your opponent successfully plays a maneuver of 5D or greater, and it is not reversed from arsenal,

Nash checks when the maneuver is successfully played, but doesn't resolve that effect until after damage is applied, but the decision was already made.

Champ checks after the card has not been reversed from Arsenal, which is AFTER you've taken damage, and also AFTER you would have reduced with Sustained Damage.

Clearly this isn't a contradiction, it's two separate rulings based on two differently worded effects.

ON THAT NOTE - we could really do without the negative tone that's been found in the Rules Forum lately.  We do this to help you guys out, of our own free will, to assist the players.  We receive nothing but the occasional gratitude.  We don't owe anyone anything.  So let's be more considerate and remember this is a hobby, we have real lives with jobs and duties.  For example, I work two jobs, I have two disabled people in my home to assist, two dogs to take out, and I'm starting college classes.

Let's be a little more considerate going forward, please and thank you.

CREED

I'd like to point out that the Nash card image says "10D+" and not "10+D"

Not sure if this is an oversight or not
Please Like The Film Slobs on Facebook and Twitter!

Offline CreedP

  • Voice of Reason
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 20765
  • +486/-368
    • View Profile
Re: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 12:20:35 PM »
It's ultimately irrelevant, but thanks.  Either way it means '10 or more damage', and I was paraphrasing.

CREED
VHS 3: Payback - Out Now!

"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world." - Bill Bullard

Offline Daeva

  • Virtual Contributor, Level 4 Judge, Hope Ender
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 10351
  • +312/-213
  • On Balance, Off Balance, Doesn't Matter
    • View Profile
Re: Backed by Smackdown GM Vickie Guerrero and The Champ
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 01:47:15 PM »
Convention is to put the + or - after the D (or F) for clarity's sake. Creed was just paraphrasing, but the card text should consistently say "10D+" or "8F-", etc. Point still stands that Nash and Champ have different triggers and check at different times.
Nate Weiss, Rules Manager & Dream Killer
"You're no fun." -Creed
Timing question? Look here.
Evidence is everything in a court of law. Evidence is also everything in the Rules Forum.