Author Topic: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...  (Read 518 times)

Offline SlowBurningChemical

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Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« on: March 06, 2018, 07:11:38 PM »
Hey guys,

I played in a classic tournament this past weekend and had a negative experience with a virtual card that I feel needs looked at by mods/playtesters: The Rocking Chair - a Bray Wyatt & Wyatt family prematch card.  The part I would like examined (and explained to me the intent) is bolded below:

The Rocking Chair
Pre-match Object
Cannot be blanked.
Put Bray Wyatt from your Backstage Area on top of this card.
During your turn, when your Arsenal contains 15 or less cards, you may put Bray Wyatt from on top of this card into your Backstage Area revealed; that Ability is added to your Ability.
When your opponent moves a non-Superstar-specific card from his Ringside without playing a card or Activating a Stipulation, you may draw 1 card.
F: 0      D: 0     Unique     Permanent

Daeva has ruled in this thread (http://teamcanadaonline.net///index.php/topic,18024.0.html) that the Wyatts will draw 1 card for every card moved, and sites the example of Once Again, Kissing Up To The Fans would allow them to draw 8 cards because there are 8 "movements".

I happen to be playing British Bulldog that day and there was nothing my deck could do to get cards back into my arsenal that didn't allow him to draw.

Firstly, the way reads, if I were to use my ability, he would draw 3 cards. Rocking Chair affects a multitude of superstars (The Rock, Undertaker, Los Guerreros, Dude Love, BOD, Jamie Noble, Nidia, Crippler, Home Team - these are just the ones off the top of my head) and forces you to shut off your ability. Is this what you intended?

Secondly, it shuts down 5th year cold (I know my play group all packs it, but I'm not sure about everyone else).  You don't even really net cards back in your deck. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not letting my opponent draw 5 free cards for nothing. Is this what you intended?

Thirdly, it shut down my Superstar specific backstage area card, which could have allowed me to stabilize by shuffling hybrids like backslide, inside cradle and nerve hold, but at a cost of letting him draw 2 cards each time. Did you intend it to trigger on Superstar specifics and/or backstage area cards?

Forthly, it shut down Calgary, as (if I am interpreting it correctly) it triggers when he reverses my card. Again, I could shuffle 2 cards, but at a cost of letting him draw 2 cards each time.

Lastly, (and maybe most importantly) I was playing a deck where every turn he had to "Use" 4 cards to reverse my maneuvers (discard 2 to European style or Chain trait, plus playing 2 reversal cards) and his hand was never below 8 cards all game. I only let him draw once with Calgary and he never played a "completely reverse" reversal until my 5th straight turn of throwing a maneuver.

So I ask you guys out there: Did I just play THE worst matchup out there for Bulldog and I'm just whining, or is there a case to be made here? I would especially like to hear from Creed and/or  a playtester for their thoughts on this. Thank you for reading.

Offline Scotty

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Re: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 07:43:41 PM »
As the Wyatt family player, it was a very bad match up for you.

Here are how the other matches went:
Vs. Brock Lesnar, I got to draw every time he picked up a German Suplex with his Backstage area specific. It wasn’t until late game that Brock Block came into play, but I was well in control by then.

Game two was against you. As you mentioned, I only got to draw cards from it against you once or twice. Other cards like Revolution of the Mind, Scotty BASH, Double Team, and such kept my hand big. I feel Hell in a Cell would be equally as crippling against your Bulldog deck.

Match three: Summer Rae, I didn’t get to draw from Rocking Chair once. He used Ready to Figjt to recover (but I reversed the ACE twice) he used Puppies, Puppies and specifics and Precision moves to recover. Not once did I get a perk that game. Summer also was in control for the majority of the game. A few late game high fortitude actions won me the game.

Match four: There were only two opportunities (and both times I forgot...bad player) when he ACE’d You Can’t Spell Funaki Without FUN.

The first two games, it certainly helped, the second two it was mostly a non-issue. Bulldog was the only player to reveal Backstage cards all day (5th/10th). And I cannot really touch point on how the Rocking Chair made other players change their style or strategy, hopefully Ryan can comment.

I’ve touched on this in a recent Backlash Podcast episode where our playgroup (and I’m sure others) use the Ringside pile as a resource rather than a discard pile and there are strong cards (Steeel Chain Shot, Thrsut Knee Lift, Back Body Drop) that didn’t have counters. Now they do in cards like rocking Chair, Old School Cage Match and Hell in a Cell. You just have to not solely rely on those types of strategies anymore.

I’m not trying to argue against you, but trying to paint a bigger picture of my experience of the day.

Offline C-Note

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Re: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 08:17:17 PM »
I agree that the gut check against  the free floating of cards coming from a specific is a good idea. I love ringside manipulation and fear the rocking chair, but like the idea. My impression of it is that it should let you draw once per activation source, rather than per card moved (draw 1 for Once Again..., not 8, and 1 for Can't Cheat, not 2). It would still maintain its purpose and effect on the game (I believe?), still mirror free pick-up effects, mitigate chain venue shuffles etc, while not seeming unbalanced against lesser effects (5 cards from 5th year, not 1, really?).

I could limit the draw against my Funaki Pre-Match to 1 by getting a specific as my unique, so I didn't have a personal issue. It just seems like it's excessive against sillier things. I'm thinking one draw per activation source makes sense. Weighing in while it's fresh.

Offline EatSleepGymRepeat

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Re: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 04:25:56 AM »
Doesn't drawing from arsenal makes you more prone to thinning out your arsenal. still a double edge kinda of thing. just like gentlemen establishment or dude love ability.

Offline Scotty

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Re: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 05:54:43 AM »
Late game, perhaps. Early game, I’m building a hand a reversals that will redwall you, then put Bray Wyatt into my Backstage area to make all your cards -4D and start the recovery process with almost no sense of urgency.

From my experience though, no one wanted Wyatt’s to draw cards, so Rocking Chair acted more as a preventative card than an abusive card.


Offline Dizzy

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Re: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 10:24:11 AM »
I read "forces you to shut off your ability" and got lost.

Being afraid of doing anything in Raw Deal will come back to bite you in the end (at least for me). Recover like a nightmare and let him draw to his heart's content. A deck only has so many cards and even less reversals.

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Offline Hogtrail

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Re: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 11:54:58 AM »
Start packing "Do Something"
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Offline Daeva

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Re: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 04:35:58 PM »
I did give that ruling, and that ruling was correct based on the text of the card. Which is why we're going to errata the card.

Wait, going to? I already did.  :laugh:

Rocking Chair triggers once per effect now, not once per card. That should make things a mite less abusive.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 07:04:23 PM »
New wording still seems a little off. If opponent picks up a single Steel Chain Shot, it is not ‘cards’ it’s just one card - does it still trigger?

That being said, does Steel Chain Shot trigger once or three times if there are three picked up, since each card is its own effect.

Thanks.

Offline Daeva

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Re: Can we talk about The Rocking Chair...
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 09:24:33 PM »
EDIT: Changed it to "any number of cards" to make it comply with Backfire's previous definition of "cards" being 2+. Moving 1 or more cards triggers the draw.

If three Steel Chains are picked up, that's three discrete effects. Rocking Chair triggers three times. But shuffling back 20 for Mouths Writing Checks only allows 1 draw.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 09:26:42 PM by Daeva »
Nate Weiss, Rules Manager & Dream Killer
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Timing question? Look here.
Evidence is everything in a court of law. Evidence is also everything in the Rules Forum.