Author Topic: Can you believe the witty retort?  (Read 497 times)

Offline The P6 Peep

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Can you believe the witty retort?
« on: February 25, 2018, 06:24:37 PM »
Can you play "can u Believe the Witte retort" in response to the Superstar ability causing a discard?

So if a Superstar ability says "discard one card to search Arsenal for the certain card", can you respond by playing can you believe the retort", that says "as a reversal you may put his card in your ring area if your opponent discards a card"??

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Offline Mitch!

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2018, 07:09:31 PM »
The Omni-FAQ is called upon:

Can U Believe the Witte Retort?
-As always, a reversal can only be played on an opponent's turn; however, this card does not reverse the effect or card that triggers it.  EXAMPLE:  Sgt Slaughter discards an Elbow to the Face to use his Superstar Ability, so his opponent plays Witte Retort; however, this does not prevent Slaughter from getting a Throwback maneuver.
-The third effect listed will trigger if the discard effect comes from an opponent's card (but not a Superstar Ability), regardless whether it is a played card or an effect (unless the discarded cards are Heat or have 'dynamic' in the title.)  EXAMPLE:  A player discards Kick to activate Chicago Street Fight, so the Kick is removed from the game.

The Omni-FAQ answers.
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Offline The P6 Peep

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2018, 09:55:09 PM »
So Mitch, in the example above with the superstar ability allowing a card being discarded to go search for another card... Does that allow witty retort to be played as a response and then later its third effect listed will take place during the game from that point forward as long as it's in the ring and not blank?

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Offline Mitch!

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2018, 10:02:48 PM »
Once it is out it works anytime the discard, just the trigger to put it in ring only happens when it is their turn since you can't play a reversal on your own turn.
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Offline The P6 Peep

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2018, 04:05:23 PM »
Ok, Let me start over here.. just for clarity's sake.

I understand a manager may not play a reversal on their own turn, and can only play CAN U BELIEVE THE WITTE RETORT (CUBTWR) during their opponents turn.

the question we have is.... can CUBTWR "As a reversal, can only be played when your opponent discards any number of cards"... can it be played in response to the opponent of the owner of CUBTWR... that opponent discarding cards to use his ability?

I don't understand why a player can play a reversal to a Superstar Ability... even in this case, where the reversal is NOT reversing the ability, it instead is still a reversal card being played in response to a Superstar Ability being used.

Is this situation covered anywhere in the OMNI? I have read everywhere and cannot find it

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Offline Mitch!

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2018, 04:28:35 PM »
The Omni-FAQ is called upon:

Can U Believe the Witte Retort?
-As always, a reversal can only be played on an opponent's turn; however, this card does not reverse the effect or card that triggers it.  EXAMPLE:  Sgt Slaughter discards an Elbow to the Face to use his Superstar Ability, so his opponent plays Witte Retort; however, this does not prevent Slaughter from getting a Throwback maneuver.
-The third effect listed will trigger if the discard effect comes from an opponent's card (but not a Superstar Ability), regardless whether it is a played card or an effect (unless the discarded cards are Heat or have 'dynamic' in the title.)  EXAMPLE:  A player discards Kick to activate Chicago Street Fight, so the Kick is removed from the game.

The Omni-FAQ answers.

The FAQ entry answered that, if Slaughter drops one to search you can in turn drop Witte and remove the discard.
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Offline The P6 Peep

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 04:55:53 PM »
But you don't "remove the discard" do you Mitch? Because the remove from game effect of CUBTWR, ONLY works IF an opponent's card causes him to discard, not Superstar Ability discards

-As always, a reversal can only be played on an opponent's turn; however, this card does not reverse the effect or card that triggers it.  EXAMPLE:  Sgt Slaughter discards an Elbow to the Face to use his Superstar Ability, so his opponent plays Witte Retort; however, this does not prevent Slaughter from getting a Throwback maneuver.
-The third effect listed will trigger if the discard effect comes from an opponent's card (but not a Superstar Ability), regardless whether it is a played card or an effect (unless the discarded cards are Heat or have 'dynamic' in the title.)  EXAMPLE:  A player discards Kick to activate Chicago Street Fight, so the Kick is removed from the game.

my question is... where in the rules does it say a player can play reversals to a Superstar Ability effect?

In our example, Batista used his ability to discard one card to search his arsenal for a Spine Buster, and his opponent played CUBTWR, and the Batista Manager said you can't play reversals in response to my Superstar Ability.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 04:59:05 PM by drjschell »

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Offline Scotty

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 05:05:39 PM »
I don’t believe you actually remove the discarded card in the Sgt. Slaughter example, you are just allowed to put Witte report into play in response, no real difference than Sustaining a Move protected by BFM’s ability.


Offline The P6 Peep

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 05:13:21 PM »
In the ADVANCED RULZ section of version 20 of the final rules for RAW DEAL, printed by Comic Images, it states:

"Reversal: this is how you can stop an opponent from damaging you.  They can only be played on your opponent’s turn in response to a Maneuver or Action.  You can play a Reversal from your hand or Backlash deck to stop damage, or by overturning a Reversal when taking damage.  Either way, a Reversal ends your opponent’s turn.  Reversals cannot be reversed."

It states reversals, which is what CUBTWR is classified as, can only be played in response to a Maneuver or Action, and it includes the effects of Maneuvers and Actions...... BUT it does not state REVERSALS can be played in response to Superstar Abilities.

So this is what I am referring to when the opponent tried to play CUBTWR in response to Batista's Superstar Ability being used.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 05:21:51 PM by drjschell »

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Offline Mitch!

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2018, 05:35:33 PM »
I didn't read the ruling closely enough, it seem you would be able to put out Retort but it would not remove as it is not generated by a card as you said.
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Offline The P6 Peep

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2018, 06:06:34 PM »
Ok Mitch, but how does the Witte Retort override the Raw Deal Rule book stating, "Reversals can only be played on your opponent’s turn in response to a Maneuver or Action."? It doesn't say in response to a Superstar Ability

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Offline The Hurricane

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2018, 06:41:42 PM »
Omni-FAQ trumps anything you read in a 12 year old rule book bro.

Especially when I believe that entry was written while the game was still in print. The only time you can't drop Witte Retort as a red card when your opponent discards cards, is during your own turn as you can't play reversals during your own turn. You can drop it against a Superstar ability, because you're not reversing anything, and it doesn't specify that the discard effect has to come from a card.

The rule book was not as well kept together as the online Omni-FAQ was during the original game's existence.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 06:46:21 PM by The Hurricane »
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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2018, 07:46:37 PM »
You know that is out of date when, by the word, antics can never be reversed.  ;)

The Glossary is just a general group of terms that wasn't updated as the game evolved.  It's more helpful to rely on the information you'll get here.

Despite a minor misstep by Mitch (Slaughter's discard would not be RFGed) he's generally right about the intent of how it works.

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Offline The P6 Peep

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Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2018, 11:43:26 PM »
Ok guys, that makes sense... OMNI trumps RuleBook... but for the record, the OMNI being referenced here was last Updated August 24th, 2007 by Comic Images, so it's over 10 years old too, just 1 year younger than the RuleBook, lol

but I understand moving forward, if there is a conflict between the two sources, go with the Omni

Thanks MITCH, HURRICANE, CREED!  ;D

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