Author Topic: Strowman versus Lesnar  (Read 1153 times)

Offline The P6 Peep

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Strowman versus Lesnar
« on: January 20, 2018, 09:54:48 PM »
1)My dear Raw Deal manager friend needs some clarification about Braun versus Brock superstar abilities. Brock says "Your opponent's Strike Maneuvers played do no more than a maximum of 3D."... and Braun's ability says, "Your opponent's effects cannot reduce or blank the damage of your maneuvers".

I said Brock's ability still applies to reduce Braun's Strike's damage, because Brock's superstar ability is not an "effect", it's an ability, hence not impeded by Braun's ability restriction.

2) If I do have a card "effect" that reduces Braun's maneuver damage and that card has an RMS symbol, does the reduction stand because it's protected from the ability by the RMS?

thank you in advance for your input gentlemen

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Offline niiiiick

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Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2018, 10:15:06 PM »
1. From omniFAQ: Effect
-A defined effect generated from the text of a card or Superstar Ability.

So if it just states "effect" then that includes abilities, but if it says "card effect" then an ability would not be included. Therefore, Lesnar cannot reduce brauns strikes.

2. RMS protects it's own card from being modified by outside effects, and Braun is not modifying your card, just preventing you from reducing his moves damage. As an example, if you played Old School Brawl (RMS that blanks damage) to a Braun move, his ability stops the blanking and the maneuver still does it's damage

Offline The P6 Peep

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Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2018, 10:49:14 PM »
Regarding #1) I mostly follow your logic there niiiick... However they are both Superstar abilities... so who's to say that Braun's ability overrides Lesnar's ability, any more than Lesnar's ability overrides Braun's?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 11:05:15 PM by drjschell »

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Offline darkdestiny91

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Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2018, 01:16:30 AM »
Regarding #1) I mostly follow your logic there niiiick... However they are both Superstar abilities... so who's to say that Braun's ability overrides Lesnar's ability, any more than Lesnar's ability overrides Braun's?

Niiiick is right here. Effect(s) can be generated by abilities, and Braun's ability specifically mentions effects and not card effects (which don't count abilities), and besides, he DID quote the OmniFAQ for your reference.

Offline BigPimpin

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Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2018, 06:38:44 AM »
I'm not sure if this particular "rule" is written anywhere, but one of the things that I've had discussions with Nate about in the past re: this kind of this is that when there's two opposite effects vying for something a specific denial (aka NO!) overwrites a specific permission (aka YES!). 

An example of this is Rev 3 Factions vs. Lone Warrior TB:
All the R3 factions say "Can be packed by any superstar..."
However the Lone Warrior Face card says (in short) that he cannot pack Factions. The Lone Warrior face card wins this one, as LW can't run the Factions.

Applying that logic to this situation (Brock vs. Braun):
-Brock is saying "I'm changing the damage of your Strikes to 3D"
-Braun is saying "You can't change the damage of my moves"

Since Braun is a "NO!" and Brock is a "YES!" Braun wins the argument and the damage is not modified.
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Offline The P6 Peep

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Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2018, 11:21:18 AM »
Yes, this is a very interesting situation when Superstar Abilities Collide, since we are all used to Superstar Abilities trumping all, and now they are equal in priority. I can appreciate what you said BigPimpin, if (NO outranks YES) is the rule of thumb the judges and creators are going by.
I would like to see what Daeva or Creed say on this.

Poor Brock has 15 years seniority here, and this new kid on the block Strowman gets to completely ignore Brock's only little ability,  :'(, lol
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 11:42:19 AM by drjschell »

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Offline Daeva

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Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 03:56:24 PM »
Strowman completely ignores Brock's Ability. Saying that you can't do a thing trumps text that lets you do the thing, in all cases, unless the text that does the thing specifically says that it isn't affected by things.

There is also no general rule that Abilities rule the roost and trump everything else. Brock's Ability doesn't negate the RMS and reduce the damage on Atomic Lariat, for example, for the same reasoning above: "you can't modify me" beats any attempt at a modification, unless that modification specifically says that it works regardless of the effect that blocks it. (We generally don't try to trump the RMS, because that gets into weird situations.)

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Offline The P6 Peep

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Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2018, 04:13:15 PM »
"Strowman completely ignores Brock's Ability. Saying that you can't do a thing trumps text that lets you do the thing, in all cases, unless the text that does the thing specifically says that it isn't affected by things."

lol, thats a mouthful

Well thanks for the definitive explanation Daeva  :police:

PS... I hate you Braun Strowman!!!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 04:52:47 PM by drjschell »

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Offline The Kisser

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Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2019, 04:58:09 AM »
I know this is an ol Post as I was trying to also find out like say you play Sustain Damage or The Motor Pool against Braun as On sustained Damage I think it's where you can discard any number of cards to reduce damage and on The Motor Pool for slaughter you can remove any number of TB to reduce it Damage of a Successfully play card as this is on both my ? let's say Braun plays Scoop slam w/ a is a Chain: Grapple Grapple Multi and it's successfully play can I Sustain that Scoop Slam by using The Motor Pool to remove let's say a TB Lift A boot or any other TB card and reducing the damage by 2 and also Neither Mankind or Cactus Jack an reduce the damage on set correct?

Offline Drywall

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Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2019, 03:58:32 AM »
I know this is an ol Post as I was trying to also find out like say you play Sustain Damage or The Motor Pool against Braun as On sustained Damage I think it's where you can discard any number of cards to reduce damage and on The Motor Pool for slaughter you can remove any number of TB to reduce it Damage of a Successfully play card as this is on both my ? let's say Braun plays Scoop slam w/ a is a Chain: Grapple Grapple Multi and it's successfully play can I Sustain that Scoop Slam by using The Motor Pool to remove let's say a TB Lift A boot or any other TB card and reducing the damage by 2 and also Neither Mankind or Cactus Jack an reduce the damage on set correct?

"Your opponent's effects cannot reduce or blank the damage of your maneuvers".

No to both.
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