Author Topic: explain lions den  (Read 422 times)

Offline Kingsantino92

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explain lions den
« on: October 23, 2017, 09:47:55 PM »
The Lion's Den Match     (+Steve Blackman & Owen Hart logos)
Pre-match Stipulation
Cannot be blanked.
Non-Unique non-Superstar-specific non-maneuver cards and card effects from non-Unique non-Superstar-specific non-Stipulation cards (exceptVolley This!) cannot move cards from any Ringside.
When you successfully play a maneuver, shuffle up to 1 maneuver from Ringside into your Arsenal.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent

Can someone give me some examples of what can and cannot be used because of this card? Aren't both requirements a contradiction of the other?

Offline Mitch!

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Re: explain lions den
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 10:22:14 PM »
One is for cards, one is for card effects.

1st Part: Moving cards only works with Uniques, Specifics and moves.
2nd:Same as part 1 except it also counts effects but leaves stipulations alone so say Chicago Street Fight still works instead of moves.
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Offline Daeva

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Re: explain lions den
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 10:26:07 PM »
What can be used with this: Volley This!, World Tour '05, Three Faces of Foley, 360-Degree Clothesline, Duchess of Queensbury Rules Match, et multiple cetera.

What can't be used with this: Steel Chain Shot, Shoot Headlock, Thrust Knee Lift, I Can't Be Reading This Right..., JR Style Clubberin', Flawless Execution, et multiple cetera.

What part of this card seems contradictory?
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Offline Kingsantino92

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Re: explain lions den
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 11:08:06 PM »
So a card being played from hand falls under the 1st restriction and not the 2nd as a card effect? Like if I played I Am What I Say I Am and use the effect to pick up 2 cards from ringside that wouldn't be a "non-unique non-stipulation card effect?

Offline dilbert505

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Re: explain lions den
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 12:09:00 AM »
OK, I see what the problem is, here. The question you're really getting at is "What makes text on a card just 'the card,' rather than 'a card effect'?"

Chicken Wing (TB):
F: 6 D:6
When successfully played, shuffle 3 cards from your Ringside Pile into your Arsenal.

That card would satisfy the first set of criteria (it is a maneuver card) but not the second, if the card text is a card effect (it is not coming from a Unique, Superstar-Specific, or Stipulation card.)

The OmniFAQ isn't entirely clear on this point; it says that card text often explains the mechanics of an effect in detail, but does not specify if card text is always an effect, or if some card text is just "part of the card."

I'll defer to people with a greater handle on the rules than I have to explain the difference, if there is one, but I think I'm laying out your concerns more clearly. Is that correct?

(On an unrelated note, I think the card you're looking for is actually JBL's reversal, I Am Who I Say I Am, not Mr. Perfect's I Am What I Say I Am, but in either case, the card wouldn't be impacted by either set of criteria on Lion's Den Match, because the card in question is Superstar Specific, and SS cards are exempted from both clauses.)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 12:11:16 AM by dilbert505 »
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Offline darkdestiny91

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Re: explain lions den
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 12:59:16 AM »
From what I understood from some posts I've read regarding this.

Can confirm that Steel Chain Shot, Thrust Knee Lift, and Kidney Punch's card effects all don't work inside the Lion's Den. Something like Inverted Leg Lock will work fine; "card effect" in this context refers to effects that are not generated by playing the card.

From the V8(A) spoiler chat, "card effect" is clarified to, in this context, refer to effects that are not generated by playing the card. Thus, it can be referred that "card" should refer to effects generated by playing the actual card.

In your example, JBL's I Am Who I Say I Am's effect will still work, as it is a superstar-specific card and is not blocked by Lion's Den. Also, the card itself isn't contradictory as it itself meets the requirement for the card's effect to still work (is unique, is superstar-specific).

Hope this helps.