Author Topic: The Second Coming Question  (Read 135 times)

Offline rachelmon

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The Second Coming Question
« on: October 13, 2017, 03:26:44 AM »
The Second Coming
Starting Hand Size: 7     Superstar Value: 5
Legend Superstar Ability: You cannot flip cards face-up.  Once during each of your turns, you may play 1 face-down card as if from hand or Backlash.   
Your Feud cards are now Active Events and can be played during the Feud phase.
You may pack Unique Chris Jericho Arsenal and Mid-Match cards and I'm Better Than You.  You cannot pack Corners, Managers, Run-ins, First Of All, or Back to Basics.
V5

Example if currently I am 0F and my face down is Shoot-Lockup, Can I use ability to play or I still need to have the fortitude in order to play?

Offline BigPimpin

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Re: The Second Coming Question
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 05:46:10 AM »
The Second Coming
Starting Hand Size: 7     Superstar Value: 5
Legend Superstar Ability: You cannot flip cards face-up.  Once during each of your turns, you may play 1 face-down card as if from hand or Backlash.   
Your Feud cards are now Active Events and can be played during the Feud phase.
You may pack Unique Chris Jericho Arsenal and Mid-Match cards and I'm Better Than You.  You cannot pack Corners, Managers, Run-ins, First Of All, or Back to Basics.
V5

Example if currently I am 0F and my face down is Shoot-Lockup, Can I use ability to play or I still need to have the fortitude in order to play?

By definition, when you play a card, you must meet all requirements before you can play it.

So in this case, unless one of the following conditions is true, you cannot play Shoot Lockup face-down from 0F:

1) Your opponent is a Legend
2) Your opponent is a GM
3) You have some outside effects that grant you a reduction of 9F to your next card played (Vince McMahon Interferes, 3 x I'm Always On Top, A Chorus of Boos, etc...)
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Offline Eric RD

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Re: The Second Coming Question
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 08:17:56 AM »
Would this mean The Hart Dynasty's card they're playing face down from hand would have to meet the fortitude requirement? These guys and Second Coming are two different effects, but dealing with same theme of face down cards.

THE HART DYNASTY
Starting Hand Size: 8     Superstar Value: 3
Stable Superstar Ability:  You can pack Chain Wrestling, From the Top Rope, and Springboard in your Backstage Area.  During your turn, you may discard 1 card and play 1 card from hand face-down; when you do, choose 1 Set-up card in your Backstage Area, and your played card gains the text and title of the chosen card, and gains the text 'Cannot be reversed'.
When you would flip over a face-down card in your Ring, shuffle it into your Arsenal instead.
You are a Tag Team.
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Offline BigPimpin

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Re: The Second Coming Question
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 08:55:35 AM »
Would this mean The Hart Dynasty's card they're playing face down from hand would have to meet the fortitude requirement? These guys and Second Coming are two different effects, but dealing with same theme of face down cards.

THE HART DYNASTY
Starting Hand Size: 8     Superstar Value: 3
Stable Superstar Ability:  You can pack Chain Wrestling, From the Top Rope, and Springboard in your Backstage Area.  During your turn, you may discard 1 card and play 1 card from hand face-down; when you do, choose 1 Set-up card in your Backstage Area, and your played card gains the text and title of the chosen card, and gains the text 'Cannot be reversed'.
When you would flip over a face-down card in your Ring, shuffle it into your Arsenal instead.
You are a Tag Team.

Not correct, because we're talking about different mechanics.

Think of Second Coming's ability as similar to playing a card from under another card.  Outside reduction abilities aside, you can't throw a turn 1 Press Slam from under Back to Basics because you don't have 24F.  Same concept here - you're trying to play a Shoot Lock-Up, not a face-down card.  Timing Breakdown wise, playing the Shoot Lock-Up at 0F breaks down at step 2d when you don't have the Fortitude to play the card.

Hart Dynasty's ability permits you to play a face-down card from hand.  Timing Breakdown wise, you pass steps 2a-2d because face-down cards don't have any requirements or Fortitude values, and then Dynasty applies their ability addition in step 2e.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 09:00:38 AM by BigPimpin »
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Offline Eric RD

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Re: The Second Coming Question
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 09:00:35 AM »
Would this mean The Hart Dynasty's card they're playing face down from hand would have to meet the fortitude requirement? These guys and Second Coming are two different effects, but dealing with same theme of face down cards.

THE HART DYNASTY
Starting Hand Size: 8     Superstar Value: 3
Stable Superstar Ability:  You can pack Chain Wrestling, From the Top Rope, and Springboard in your Backstage Area.  During your turn, you may discard 1 card and play 1 card from hand face-down; when you do, choose 1 Set-up card in your Backstage Area, and your played card gains the text and title of the chosen card, and gains the text 'Cannot be reversed'.
When you would flip over a face-down card in your Ring, shuffle it into your Arsenal instead.
You are a Tag Team.

Not correct, because we're talking about different mechanics.

Think of Second Coming's ability as similar to playing a card from under another card.  Outside reduction abilities aside, you can't throw a turn 1 Press Slam from under Back to Basics because you don't have 24F.  Same concept here - you're trying to play a Shoot Lock-Up, not a face-down card. 

Hart Dynasty's ability permits you to play a face-down card from hand.  The printed contents of the card don't matter - the card is face down, which by definition has nothing but a title, so it passes the requirements check, and then the Superstar Ability adds the text and irreversibility after the check.

<This space will be filled with timing breakdown specifics shortly.>

Okay, thanks for the thorough ruling. :)
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