Author Topic: Interaction of 'blanking text'  (Read 966 times)

Offline darkdestiny91

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Interaction of 'blanking text'
« on: June 07, 2017, 10:03:18 PM »
Had a specific situation happen in a game recently.

I was The Immortal One and blanked my opponent's Headlock Driver using Feathered Boa, which was played as an action.

Feathered Boa
Backstage Area: Foreign Object
Can only be revealed from your Backstage area when you reveal your Superstar card.
During your opponent's turn, you may hide this card to blank the text on an Action card or Maneuver card played by him for the rest of the turn.
Unique
UNF

Headlock Driver
Trademark Finisher / Action
When you are Dean Ambrose, this card is Multi.
As a maneuver, when your opponent plays a reversal to this card, draw up to 1 card.
As an action, this card is F: 0, shuffle this card and up to 1 card from your Ringside into your Arsenal, and he puts 1 random card from his hand on the bottom of his Arsenal.
F: 24     D: 16     SV: 2     Unique
V7

If I get it right, the play is still legal for the action but it doesn't leave the ring as the text is blank and gives my opponent 16F? Just want a clarification, thanks in advance!

Offline DebuRaito

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2017, 01:26:49 AM »
Yes. Provided that you did not reverse it, the card will go in to the Ring and you'll start taking damage for the Action.

Offline CreedP

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 07:41:47 AM »
That's wrong, sorry to say.  I don't have time to dig it up and quote it, but no, a card going to another area doesn't suddenly go to the ring (unless something says so, like <R> My Way).  It continues toward the destination, it just doesn't do anything.

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Offline DebuRaito

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 09:36:41 AM »
That's wrong, sorry to say.  I don't have time to dig it up and quote it, but no, a card going to another area doesn't suddenly go to the ring (unless something says so, like <R> My Way).  It continues toward the destination, it just doesn't do anything.

CREED

Nvm, I dug it up for you, and unless the omnifaq is wrong...

-Feathered Boa will blank an Action card before it can determine its destination (and before the Boa player has an opportunity to reverse) or calculate damage - but after the legality check. This means if the card is not reversed, it will go to the Ring area. EXAMPLE: A Good Old-Fashioned Mugging is played as an Action and Boa is used to blank it; the card is legal for play, but without text, it will go to the Ring area as a D: 50 Action.

Offline CreedP

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2017, 09:47:51 AM »
That entry is wrong, old and contradicted by the Timing Breakdown (I know because I put it there, heh).

6a Some cards are put into the Ringside Pile or other area instead of going to the Ring Area (Iron Will etc.) The Timing Breakdown still continues as normal, these cards never enter the Ring Area.  They will resolve during the text resolution (Step 8) at that time, and will still resolve to its destination even if blanked.

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Offline BALLS

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017, 09:56:03 AM »
“Rowdy” Roddy Piper
-Cards that are affected by Piper’s ability are blanked wherever they are, in hand, Backlash deck, Ring area, etc.
An action/reversal hybrid with ‘reverse’ in the text can be played to the Ring area and deal damage. EXAMPLE:
Too Many Rules and Too Many Refs.

how bout this??

Offline DebuRaito

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2017, 10:00:47 AM »
Part 6a of the timing breakdown only applies when the card is successfully played, Feathered Boa effect is generated even before the card is successfully played.

Offline CreedP

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2017, 10:19:22 AM »
Debu - not correct at all, please state your source.  Stating things like that without proof doesn't make them true, sorry.

BALLS - they're blank wherever they are with Piper's ability, not an effect used when played.  Apples and oranges.

CREED
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Offline DebuRaito

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 10:32:59 AM »
Timing Breakdown

1 Play the card. Until the card is moved to another area, it is not in any area while resolving the Timing Breakdown.
1a Reveal the card to all players and choose a target or targets for the card (if any.)

2a Determine the Fortitude cost for the card, including modifiers, the effects of the card’s player first, then his opponent’s effects. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.) You may not play a card if you cannot meet the Fortitude cost, unless a ‘when played’ effect can lower the Fortitude cost; this effect can only be as a function of playing the card.
2b Determine that you can meet all of the 'must' requirements listed on the card.
2c Check that a Follow-up condition is met (if required), including any ‘ignore the text’ effects.
2d If any of these steps can not be satisfied, the sequence ends immediately and the card remains where it started. (It does not count as having been played.)
2e Apply any ‘when played’ effects from the card’s controller.
2f Apply any ‘when played’ effects from the opponent.

3a Apply damage modifiers from sources that you control. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.)
3b Apply reversal modifiers of the card played.(self-plunging or maneuvers that bar reversals (Panics, Atomic Lariat, Shoots, etc.))

4 Apply damage modifiers from sources your targeted opponent controls. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.)

5a Targeted opponent may play a reversal card or generate a reversal effect. (If he plays a reversal card, that card will follow its own Timing Breakdown sequence.)
5b If you played a card with Multi, targeted opponent may play or generate a second reversal after the first reversal has completed all effects and damage.
5c If the card is completely reversed, the Timing Breakdown ends.

6 The card is now 'Successfully Played' and enters the Ring Area. If this card is reversing the card in question (it is not the first reversal to a Multi, it is not Over Sell Maneuver), the affected maneuver is now considered reversed. (Any text on the card and any Traits on the card are considered to be in your Ring Area after this step is complete. This excludes text that would modify or trigger in any of the first six steps.)
6a Some cards are put into the Ringside Pile or other area instead of going to the Ring Area (Iron Will etc.) The Timing Breakdown still continues as normal, these cards never enter the Ring Area. They will resolve during the text resolution (Step Cool at that time, and will still resolve to its destination even if blanked.

7a Effects you control (other than this card's text taking place when played or when successful played) that trigger on a Successfully Played card take place. In the event of more than one effect, you choose which order they occur.
7b Effects your opponent controls that trigger on a Successfully Played card take place. Opponent chooses the order. (This is where cards such as Over Sell Maneuver and Sustained Damage are played.)

8 Apply effects listed on the card, unless these effects take place ‘when played’ or ‘when this card is in’ a specified area.

9a Chance for activated damage modification (Sustained Damage, Los Guerreros)
9b Damage is overturned one card at a time. Appropriate reversals may be overturned. (This is also the Step where cards are overturned for Raw & Ready, Over Sell Maneuver, and other cards that replace damage with overturning cards.)
9c Effects generated from resolving a maneuver’s damage may be performed by the player of the original card (searching for a Chain card, for example)
9d Effects generated from resolving a maneuver’s damage may be performed by the opponent (Jamie Noble’s superstar ability, activating There’s No Holding Me Back)
9e Any ‘end the turn’ effects are resolved, along with any effects triggered by ending the turn.

Step 6a comes after step 6, where the card is already successfully played. Feathered Boa mentions that it is able to blank the card when it is legally played by opponent, which means that it takes place by step 5 (the step where a reversal is allowed to be played or generated), that's also why the below example is given by the omnifaq, unless it's wrong again, as determined by you.

-If this card is hidden, it will affect a card being played by the opponent before a reversal card being played. EXAMPLE: An opponent plays Clutch onto Opponent, but Feathered Boa is hidden - that card can now be reversed by cards like Elbow to the Face.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 11:02:49 AM by DebuRaito »

Offline BigPimpin

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 11:19:28 AM »
So what I think he's saying is that in the case of the Boa, the card is blanked in 2f, which means that in 6/6a, there's no special instructions for where to put it, so by default (per step 6), it goes to the Ring.

I'm not sure if the <R> BoD ruling would apply here, in that when a card is set to go somewhere but is re-routed, it defaults to the Ringside.  But the scenario's I'm seeing are either:

1) The action is successful and goes to the ring in Step 6, applying text (none) and damage (16).
2) The card counts as "re-routed" and, as the rule defines, goes to the Ringside pile. 

I think the Piper comparison is somewhat similar in that the card is blanked before resolution (2f through 9e) so it goes through the majority of the timing sequence blank.  The main difference between Piper and Boa is that you must meet the requirements vs. Boa (example: Back Splash), whereas with Piper the Back Splash is always blank and can just be played when you feel like it. 
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Offline Daeva

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2017, 11:48:16 AM »
The key mistake that Debu is making is assuming that a card's destination is set in step 6a. The card's destination is set when it's played; the note at 6a is just a reminder. This is why Piper works differently, because he blanks the card before it's even attempted.

(The <R> BoD ruling does not apply in this case, as well, because the card has a valid destination. Step 6a's note is telling you that blanking effects don't change a card's destination.)
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Offline darkdestiny91

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Re: Interaction of 'blanking text'
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 05:41:02 PM »
The key mistake that Debu is making is assuming that a card's destination is set in step 6a. The card's destination is set when it's played; the note at 6a is just a reminder. This is why Piper works differently, because he blanks the card before it's even attempted.

(The <R> BoD ruling does not apply in this case, as well, because the card has a valid destination. Step 6a's note is telling you that blanking effects don't change a card's destination.)

This and Creed's answer seem to answer my question. Thanks for the clarification. Destination of the card cannot be blanked by outside effects and have been determined upon playing the card, blanking it doesn't suddenly change its destination, got it!

Thanks all for replying and also to Debu for getting a discussion on timing breakdown going for me to see how it resolves.  :D