Author Topic: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness  (Read 894 times)

Offline W4RP47H

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Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« on: May 05, 2017, 05:08:23 AM »
I feel like the game is fairly balanced overall(Not counting Revo which is FUBAR IMO). I know there are strong cards and some fairly hard counters but i feel like this is enough counter meta to keep this game interesting for some time. It does not even bother me that they do not make cards anymore officially because there are many good car5d games with a fixed base.

One thing that concerns me is the pre-match phase. We never had venues or objects and I do not know how to even play with those. Seems like it has made the games super long where it used to be fairly fast. I have been watching some past tournaments(props to you guys posting them on you tube) and its seems way long before the game even starts now.

Can some one break down how to play these new(to me) cards?


Offline Mitch!

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2017, 06:18:13 AM »
This is the pre-match play order:
Allegiance
Venue
Feud
Stipulation
Manager
Events/Objects/storylines
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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 06:35:57 AM »
It takes time to learn and absorb the new cards.....it really does....usually the best way to jump back in the pool is to sit against someone who's been using them and they can give you a bit of a nudge on how and why this stuff works too

...funny you mentioned Revo, because it is still the simplest and most straight forward way to jump back in.....no backstage.....limit ed pre and mid and TONS of options now
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Offline Keith0913832

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2017, 09:04:52 AM »
Revo certainly is the easiest format to pick up since its only 3 pre match and 3 mid match slots with not much 'unseen' rules like chain heat volley etc in classic. Revo was also how I got a few guys to get back into the game due to its simplicity. The cards might look different, but the game play is definitely easier!

Offline CreedP

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2017, 09:13:37 AM »
I'd be interested to hear opinions on what is bad about Revolution balance, though some of it might just be adjusting to new strategies and styles introduced.  Generally the input has been favorable regarding the Rev. environment.

Granted, All Axxess is kind of the 'Wild West' of Raw Deal, but that's another story, heh.

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Offline W4RP47H

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2017, 07:31:57 PM »
The thing I find most offensive is that it is a reboot that invalidates old cards. Unnecessary IMO.

Offline Keith0913832

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2017, 07:47:20 PM »
The format by itself is definitely more stable than classic. You should give them a try to understand what it is about. Otherwise I think it isn't fair to the format by passing a negative judgement on something you haven't tried.

Offline CreedP

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2017, 08:01:30 PM »
The thing I find most offensive is that it is a reboot that invalidates old cards. Unnecessary IMO.
Honestly, it seems more like prejudice.  You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but the old 'Revolution killed Raw Deal' a) isn't precisely true, there's a lot more involved... and b) isn't relevant, since Classic, Revolution, and All Axxess formats are all revived with new cards, heh.

If someone truly doesn't enjoy playing Revolution, that's fine, they can play with just the 'Classic style' cards.  There's lots of that, and it's the primary format we design for.  Those who do can play it as well.  It's all good.  :)

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Offline W4RP47H

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2017, 02:59:51 AM »
You have your opinion I have mine.  I like classic raw deal. I dislike antics. I dislike the layout of revo. I dislike an attempt at a reboot that looks and feels fisher price. I dislike the compatbilty issues. Idi slike the advantage that revo had over base game superstars.  Like how you need things like managers to reverse.

Some people like revo. Seems to alot of people that revo was a coffin nail for raw deal. That alone caused people to dislike it. You could make a new MtG game without lands and artifacts and add 3 colors. But its not MtG anymore at that point is it?

Offline Keith0913832

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2017, 03:13:00 AM »
Seems to alot of people that revo was a coffin nail for raw deal. That alone caused people to dislike it.

Please give this thread a read first if you havent came across it :)
 
http://www.teamcanadaonline.net/index.php/topic,15753.msg184346.html#msg184346

And revo really doesn't have much difference from the game. Instead of grapple, there's throws, instead of strikes, there's assault, instead of submissions, there's holds. Instead of high risk and foreign object, it's extreme. There no heel no chain no heat or whatever traits there are. And there is no distinct advantage against classic superstars. There are tonnes of support cards that help both sides get an even play against each other.

Ultimately, it's a misconception alot of people have, but if you give it a try, it's like any other raw Deal game, just more exciting and unpredictable :)

Offline BigPimpin

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2017, 05:43:27 AM »
You have your opinion I have mine.  I like classic raw deal. I dislike antics. I dislike the layout of revo. I dislike an attempt at a reboot that looks and feels fisher price. I dislike the compatbilty issues. Idi slike the advantage that revo had over base game superstars.  Like how you need things like managers to reverse.

Some people like revo. Seems to alot of people that revo was a coffin nail for raw deal. That alone caused people to dislike it. You could make a new MtG game without lands and artifacts and add 3 colors. But its not MtG anymore at that point is it?

My .02:

I'll say that I disliked Revo back in the day because it caused all kinds of brokenness in the full AA game ("Green Wave", Colossal LAISE, Colossal BPP, etc) and I had no interest in scrapping the cards I made an investment in.

But, in the current Virtual meta, they're different flavors of Raw Deal that play well when kept in separate pens.  It's like saying Vanilla vs. Chocolate - they're still ice cream, but they're fundamentally different flavors that have different experiences and different audiences. The 2 VR sets gave the Revolution experience variety and not a "first to 7F wins" vibe. 

Also, some of the problems with AA "compatibility" have been addressed in Virtual design, with a great example being Legendary Defense.  Legendary Defense from Virtual 4 gives Legends a huge advantage in AA - Step/Escape/Break can each stop Strikes, Grapples, Submissions, Assaults, Holds, and Throws, while Lift a Boot covers High Risk and Extremes.  You could, in theory, make a Legend deck in AA, run Legendary Defense, and 3 x Get the "F" Out's, and you've now covered all the basic maneuver types at 4F-.  Other Classic cards have tangential benefits for the AA game as well - Your Reach Exceeds Your Grasp and Don't Be A Douchebag, for example, wound First Turn Colossal strategies, and the rise of BASH to a seat at the table hurts Green Wave. 

AA will never be the "more fun" format, since its impossible to contain the Wild West, but if you're playing an AA tournament, you have options without packing Revolution cards (though there's a couple that I'd include anyway if I can: <R> Two For The Show, <R> My Way, and <R> Off Your Mark all merit huge consideration, and MAYBE <R> Slow This Match To A Crawl - all printable in the Virtual format.).  As someone who's constantly trying to help make the game better, I'll play all forms of Raw Deal, but if I were simply a player, I'd choose VC and Revo as separate games and leave AA where it was. 
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Offline W4RP47H

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2017, 09:04:57 PM »
Thanks Bigp. And for those who do like Revo good on ya. Don't let my dislike for it color your fun.

Offline riothebeast

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2017, 10:54:42 AM »
Virtual is amazing and the guys do great work and quickly fix issues that are broken. I personally only dislike revo due to the aggression rule and making antics to big of a gamble to even play. If you sit on lackey where most people play you wont find many people wanting to play it and if you suggest it you will be met with groans. AA is fun in its own right but like been stated its a mess i only like it for batista cause thats my guy and fun to be able to play hhh spinebuster but would hate to play it competitive. I do feel alot of hate for revo could be curbed with the elimination of the aggression rule to open up more playstyles but that is my personal opinion and not meant to jab all the hard work they put into those cards but they do look great.

Offline W4RP47H

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2017, 12:43:24 PM »
Sounds like I need to do lackey. Pretty excited about it. I'll try to figure it out.

Offline darkdestiny91

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Re: Gamestate, Prematch and Brokeness
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 12:28:55 AM »
My $0.02

Classic, to me, will always feel like the superior format for me, due to the amount of time I spent playing it. Revo has some things I like about it but I won't scramble to be playing it. Raw Deal Classic has always felt... right.

Did try Revo during the "Revolution" era when it was introduced, but it just doesn't live up to how Classic felt for me. But it was decent as a format, will never try AA because I feel like Revo and Classic feel so different that mixing them feels weird to me.

But Virtual is legit doing so much for both formats and that is awesome.