Author Topic: Better tournament kit card quality.  (Read 712 times)

Offline riothebeast

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Better tournament kit card quality.
« on: March 10, 2017, 12:51:23 AM »
After physically holding the flimsy pieces of paper that somehow cost $8 to order i would like to suggest using makeplayingcards website to create these tournament kit cards. I order all of my cards for virtual from there and they are identical to real raw deal cards in everyway. The cost is on average for me is about 14 cents a card. Not really trying to bag on anyone but $8 for some flimsy pieces of paper that cost pennies seems a little to high. Also i am more than happy to walk people through how to order and get great looking virtual cards from them.

Offline CreedP

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2017, 07:43:42 AM »
WOW.  So basically the time and effort it took to create, design, publish, print, and the expense of mailing out is taken for granted by someone who just got here?

Amazing.

I'm not looking to pick a fight, but I find this *highly* offense.

Keep in mind there is no 'company support' like Comic Images had back in the day, this is one guy handling the distribution of prize support, by himself, paying out of pocket, just because he wants to help support the game.

We've actually discussed ending tournament prize support, and not making any new prize cards.  Perhaps if this is all the appreciation there is, that's the right thing to do.

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2017, 07:48:30 AM »
Vela goes out of his way every year to provide AMAZING support, for an event he's only attended ONCE. He does this out of the kindness of his heart. He doesn't have to do anything for us, he makes the choice to each year.
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Offline dilbert505

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2017, 10:10:09 AM »
We've actually discussed ending tournament prize support, and not making any new prize cards.  Perhaps if this is all the appreciation there is, that's the right thing to do.

Suffice it to say, this isn't all the appreciation there is. This is one guy coming in off the street and running his mouth without knowing the story. Rio, if you want to properly compensate Tony for his time and hard work, maybe he'll talk to you about it, I don't know, but frankly, he's the one putting in a shitload of effort to make sure that tournaments are properly supported. It's insulting and disrespectful to presume that the full extent of his work is printing off the cards. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, not least of which is shipping costs.

Speaking for myself, I'd like to see more TK prizes in the future. The dev team's done great work putting out cards that are worth playing for, and it's definitely an incentive to get to tournaments, when there's something that you'd really benefit from as a prize.
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Offline riothebeast

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2017, 10:21:43 AM »
I was always taught if you are going to do something do it right. Now i was not trying to make anyone upset I mentioned it due to the fact the only way to try to suggest a change or inprovement is to bring it up instead of being silient. I do appreciate you guys do still support local play and if time and effort is that extreme thats even more of a reason to use my suggestion. You could take 2 seconds to just type in the mailing address then bam you are done. I guess im just being an expletive for simply suggestion an easy cost effective improvement.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 10:29:31 AM by riothebeast »

Offline Buddha Dudley

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2017, 10:46:54 AM »
I was taught that if you want something done right, you do it yourself.

There is a difference between making a suggestion that free stuff have better quality versus actually volunteering to pay for all of it.  You weren't expecting people to give you free stuff I hope.

Be the change you want to see in the world, and volunteer to pay for it.  Are you willing to pay for everyone's riothebeast so that all may have better cards from makeplayingcards?  Or was your suggestion only self serving in that you yourself, only wanted better stuff? 

We do have donor status set up for teamcanadaonline for such things.

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Offline CreedP

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2017, 10:54:27 AM »
@riothebeast:  It's not just the cost, which someone is paying for, it's the time.  People are so quick to dismiss time spent, it seems.

While the effort to say 'here's something that might be better' is appreciated, starting off with a degrading, insulting tone loses the message completely and presents any helpful suggestion as an attack instead.  Keep in mind this undermines all the work Vela's put in regarding obtaining signatures from wrestlers, as well as printing & sending out these prize cards, for several years now before you signed up for this site.  ;)

Also, since you're fairly new, I'll give you a bit of history.  There's been quite a lot of people with Google Fu and Photoshop skills who come in with big talk claiming they can do better than what we're doing.  Then they leave.  Meanwhile, we're going on a 9th year of producing a game - for free - that isn't just more cards, but enriches the play environment, offers tournament prizes, and attempts to stay current with the WWE characters (to a realistic extent, of course).

So bottom line - could we do something differently?  Obviously, yes.  Will we?  Depends on if it's cost effective, since there is no company providing payment or product as reimbursement, and time efficient to coordinate and receive.  However, presenting options with aggressively negative messages usually causes a defensive attitude from those who do appreciate all that's done for a game that went out of print nearly a decade ago.  ;)

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Offline riothebeast

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2017, 11:13:11 AM »
  I never claimed the creating process was insufficiant. And as far as free tournament kits goes it was my understanding that there is a cost to order these for stores. Is it really so offensive to say hey this is a cost effective solution and looks amazing? I should have learned by now that any suggestion to try and make improvements is met with anger and offense. Now if i missunderstood that these kits are sent out at no cost i apologize for this post.

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2017, 11:28:08 AM »
To be fair, there is a cost for ordering these kits. Velacards does this, but at a loss. He definitely doesn't make any $ when ordering these costs.

It's not offensive to recommend a cost effective solution.  It is offensive of you to say that what Vela does, at a loss of $, is "flimsy pieces of paper." 

riothebeast, do you have anything constructive to add to this?



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Offline CRASHER

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2017, 11:36:28 AM »
Yeah I was gonna say what Buddha did....between printing (and ink ain't cheap), paper, cutting and shipping the stuff, I'd consider the $8 a "break-even charge" and is totally fair, especially when compared to the costs of the game when it was in actual print
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Offline dilbert505

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2017, 11:37:55 AM »
I was always taught if you are going to do something do it right. Now i was not trying to make anyone upset I mentioned it due to the fact the only way to try to suggest a change or inprovement is to bring it up instead of being silient. I do appreciate you guys do still support local play and if time and effort is that extreme thats even more of a reason to use my suggestion. You could take 2 seconds to just type in the mailing address then bam you are done. I guess im just being an expletive for simply suggestion an easy cost effective improvement.

See, you may have been taught to do something right, but I question whether you were taught how to do it right. Your suggestion isn't without merit, but try this tone on for size, and see if you think it might have gone over better.

"Hey, guys. I've been playing in some tournaments recently, and while I appreciate everything you're doing with the tournament kits, I wanted to run a suggestion by you. I love the feel of the cards CI produced, and I found a site online called http://www.makeplayingcards.com. This site lets you upload designs for cards, order a batch, and they'll send them out for you on cardstock similar to the original Raw Deal cards. It's pretty cost effective, too; when I get the virtual sets printed there, it works out to about $0.14/card. I was wondering how much it would change the price of the tournament kit to get cards printed on cardstock, rather than getting paper prize cards that you need to put in front of another card? Is this something you've considered in the past?"

Same message, but rather than calling Tony's hard work crap, it's phrased as a constructive suggestion with an implicit offer to help (that's the point of asking how much extra kits would cost doing it that way.)
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Offline riothebeast

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2017, 11:44:20 AM »
 Besides suggesting a cost effective and simple solution to my original post no i have nothing else to provide. Feel free to lock the thread and im sorry for stepping out of line. Also if you decide you may be interested in hearing more please inbox me and i can provide examples from all the virtual i ordered and the costs. Perhaps should have fluffed up the message to make people feel better but im not very good at not saying exactly what i mean.

Offline CreedP

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Re: Better tournament kit card quality.
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2017, 11:52:57 AM »
A lock seems like a good idea at this point.

Though I can't help but noticed you seem bothered by how people talked to you, at least until we 'fluffed up the message'.  Might be something to consider for the future.  :)

Anyway, the takeaway here is definitely that website, a new thread with some examples might be good.  I print way too much (playtesting, revisions, etc) to afford 'quality' printing, but it would definitely be a cool option!

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