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Messages - The P6 Peep

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Rules Forum / Re: Put versus played
« on: March 30, 2018, 10:37:51 PM »
Thank you Mitch

Rules Forum / Put versus played
« on: March 30, 2018, 10:35:06 PM »
I have a manager that I'm trying to satisfy here on a ruling... I'm trying to explain that where the big boys play the WCW Allegiance, "put' equals successfully played.

The card says "when you put a WCW card into your ring, your opponent discards 1 card".

The opponent is trying to argue that "put" does not include played.... he claims That only cards that are actually put into the ring like Judo choke or Irish whip throwback count as cards being "put" into the ring.

Can you guys please point me to some type of ruling so that I can reference it for the situation.

Thank you in advance.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: The Original Horseman question
« on: March 14, 2018, 05:57:36 PM »
Excellent clarification.... thanks for leading me to the water, so I can drink Creed  ;)

And congrats on being the 14,000th Post on the Virtual Board!! (whew!)

Virtual Raw Deal / The Original Horseman question
« on: March 14, 2018, 05:34:34 PM »
I have a question about The Nature Boy's Backstage card.

The Original Horseman
Backstage Card
Your Starting Hand Size, Superstar Value, and Pre-match Capacity are +1 for each WCW and non-faction The Nature Boy-specific Pre-match card in your Ring.
Once during each of your turns, you may either overturn 2 cards, and you are considered to be Ric Flair for the rest of the turn; or you may overturn 4 cards, and you are considered to be The Four Horsemen for the rest of the turn.
Unique     WCW logo     RMS logo

1) Are there any FACTION The Nature Boy specific pre-match cards in existence? (That will not work for The Original Horsemen because it is faction)

2) let's say I play a bunch of WCW pre matches like Halloween Havoc, Welcome to Monday Nitro, Where the big boys play, etc... Each one of those increases the hand size, Superstar Value, and Pre-Match Capacity for The Nature Boy...... AND each The Nature Boy-specific pre-Match card also triggers this effect on The Original Horsemen..... So my question is... What happens for It's the Oldest Ride in the Park, But it Still Has the Longest Line, since it is BOTH a WCW Pre-Match card AND a The Nature Boy-specific pre-match card? Does the card trigger the effect twice on The Original Horseman , since it satisfies both conditions in the same card?

Rules Forum / Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« on: February 26, 2018, 11:43:26 PM »
Ok guys, that makes sense... OMNI trumps RuleBook... but for the record, the OMNI being referenced here was last Updated August 24th, 2007 by Comic Images, so it's over 10 years old too, just 1 year younger than the RuleBook, lol

but I understand moving forward, if there is a conflict between the two sources, go with the Omni


Rules Forum / Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« on: February 26, 2018, 06:06:34 PM »
Ok Mitch, but how does the Witte Retort override the Raw Deal Rule book stating, "Reversals can only be played on your opponent’s turn in response to a Maneuver or Action."? It doesn't say in response to a Superstar Ability

Rules Forum / Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« on: February 26, 2018, 05:13:21 PM »
In the ADVANCED RULZ section of version 20 of the final rules for RAW DEAL, printed by Comic Images, it states:

"Reversal: this is how you can stop an opponent from damaging you.  They can only be played on your opponent’s turn in response to a Maneuver or Action.  You can play a Reversal from your hand or Backlash deck to stop damage, or by overturning a Reversal when taking damage.  Either way, a Reversal ends your opponent’s turn.  Reversals cannot be reversed."

It states reversals, which is what CUBTWR is classified as, can only be played in response to a Maneuver or Action, and it includes the effects of Maneuvers and Actions...... BUT it does not state REVERSALS can be played in response to Superstar Abilities.

So this is what I am referring to when the opponent tried to play CUBTWR in response to Batista's Superstar Ability being used.

Rules Forum / Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« on: February 26, 2018, 04:55:53 PM »
But you don't "remove the discard" do you Mitch? Because the remove from game effect of CUBTWR, ONLY works IF an opponent's card causes him to discard, not Superstar Ability discards

-As always, a reversal can only be played on an opponent's turn; however, this card does not reverse the effect or card that triggers it.  EXAMPLE:  Sgt Slaughter discards an Elbow to the Face to use his Superstar Ability, so his opponent plays Witte Retort; however, this does not prevent Slaughter from getting a Throwback maneuver.
-The third effect listed will trigger if the discard effect comes from an opponent's card (but not a Superstar Ability), regardless whether it is a played card or an effect (unless the discarded cards are Heat or have 'dynamic' in the title.)  EXAMPLE:  A player discards Kick to activate Chicago Street Fight, so the Kick is removed from the game.

my question is... where in the rules does it say a player can play reversals to a Superstar Ability effect?

In our example, Batista used his ability to discard one card to search his arsenal for a Spine Buster, and his opponent played CUBTWR, and the Batista Manager said you can't play reversals in response to my Superstar Ability.

Rules Forum / Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« on: February 26, 2018, 04:05:23 PM »
Ok, Let me start over here.. just for clarity's sake.

I understand a manager may not play a reversal on their own turn, and can only play CAN U BELIEVE THE WITTE RETORT (CUBTWR) during their opponents turn.

the question we have is.... can CUBTWR "As a reversal, can only be played when your opponent discards any number of cards"... can it be played in response to the opponent of the owner of CUBTWR... that opponent discarding cards to use his ability?

I don't understand why a player can play a reversal to a Superstar Ability... even in this case, where the reversal is NOT reversing the ability, it instead is still a reversal card being played in response to a Superstar Ability being used.

Is this situation covered anywhere in the OMNI? I have read everywhere and cannot find it

Rules Forum / Re: Can you believe the witty retort?
« on: February 25, 2018, 09:55:09 PM »
So Mitch, in the example above with the superstar ability allowing a card being discarded to go search for another card... Does that allow witty retort to be played as a response and then later its third effect listed will take place during the game from that point forward as long as it's in the ring and not blank?

Rules Forum / Can you believe the witty retort?
« on: February 25, 2018, 06:24:37 PM »
Can you play "can u Believe the Witte retort" in response to the Superstar ability causing a discard?

So if a Superstar ability says "discard one card to search Arsenal for the certain card", can you respond by playing can you believe the retort", that says "as a reversal you may put his card in your ring area if your opponent discards a card"??

Rules Forum / Re: Can u Believe the witty retort
« on: February 25, 2018, 11:46:50 AM »
Thank you very much Mitch

Rules Forum / Can u Believe the witty retort
« on: February 25, 2018, 11:20:42 AM »
So is "can you believe the witty retort"?

It says, "as a reversal, can only be played when your opponent discards any number of cards"

My question is on fundamental ruling basis... Can reversals be played if they are applicable during the pre-match phase, like this one?

So if your opponent discards a card during pre-match can you play witty retort?

Rules Forum / Heyman Interferes versus Dirty Low Blow
« on: January 27, 2018, 11:46:35 PM »
So I play Dirty Low Blow (Non-Throwback) and it says,  "Cannot be reversed from your opponent's hand"

My opponent plays Heyman Interferes from hand... It says, "can only be played when your opponent plays a card, he puts that card into his hand (or backlash if applicable), it is considered not to be played, and in his turn : when you have four plus cards with Hayman in the title you may put this card into his ring ringside or removed from the game instead."

Can he play it from hand if Dirty Low Blow restricts being reversed from hand?

Rules Forum / European Style versus Took that on the Chin
« on: January 27, 2018, 10:38:01 PM »
So on European style for Cesaro, Bulldog and William Regal the card says, "your opponent must discard one card to play reversals to your first and second Maneuvers played each turn with European in the title."

And as you all know Took that on the Chin says "can only be played after after a successfully played 8D or greater maneuver"

So my question is... if I do not have a reversal to the maneuver and it is successfully played, then as a reaction I play Took that on the Chin, do I still have to discard the card or two in order to play that reversal as a reaction to the successfully played maneuver that the opponent played?

Rules Forum / Re: Factions
« on: January 27, 2018, 05:30:44 PM »
ok thanks

Rules Forum / Factions
« on: January 27, 2018, 04:53:06 PM »
Anything special about FACTIONS guys?

Do they play during the EVENT Phase of Pre-match? Anything different about them?

Sports Discussion / Re: Time to update the description of this section...
« on: January 25, 2018, 07:43:52 PM »
ok, thanks Cane... geez I was way off

Honestly, Creed and co could call it a day and never make another Virtual set again. While that would indeed be a sad day, I could go on playing Virtual Raw Deal happily with a huge variety of decks to test and play. They've balanced the game to damn near perfection now and they've given us matchups we thought we'd never see. Other than the odd attitude era midcarder that didn't make the cut, we have almost everything we need. Except Head-Cheese Damnit! Lol

Well said Doctor (Dr_phillanomics)..... but if you get a Head-Cheese card for Al Snow and Steve Blackman, or even better, Chester McCheesy, lol.... then I want a Dink card for Doink, after all... Finley got Hornswaggle, lol... THEN they can pull a Steve Austin and take their ball and go home.... hehehe

Sports Discussion / Re: Time to update the description of this section...
« on: January 25, 2018, 06:49:40 PM »
Well.... we can finally bring Tommy Maddox and "He Hate Me" Rod Smart out of retirement now!!  :laugh:

I remember I had both of those guys in my one and only XFL Fantasy Football League, and I was able to easily win our SuperBowl that year.... what year was that? 1998? 1999?

I want to say something, just in case there is any doubt how we feel down here in Houston about TCO.

I know we gave you guys so much praise when we first joined TCO 7 years ago after we started playing and appreciating REV 4 & REV 5, but we haven't said how much we appreciate you guys recently for ALLLLL that you do year round for RAW DEAL across the world. I speak for all of my fellow P6 Peeps in Houston, when I say we sincerely appreciate you guys beyond what words can express.
We have been playing here for the better part of 16 years... ever since our P6 Peeps founders were handed their first promotional cards of the Rock and Stone Cold by Mike and Barron themselves at WWF Fan Access, the day before the greatest Wrestlemania of all time, Wrestlemania 17 here in Houston. And thanks to YOUR efforts and passion at TCO Virtual.. we have new generations of RAW DEAL managers playing with us now and the game lives on, stronger than ever!
What TCO has been able to accomplish to not only keep RAW DEAL alive and kicking, but to take the foundation that Barron and Mike laid, and build and evolve the game into a much broader scope of play, with strong balance. You guys have went through painstaking efforts to constantly go back and repair broken superstars and give other weaker superstars the boost they need to compete with today's stars.

The look of the Virtual cards to me is nothing short of works of art. I don't know how many other TCO members have ever tried to learn Corel Paintshop or other graphics software, and then to try to create a Superstar or Virtual card.... but I am one of those TCO Members... I have even had a few cards good enough to be adopted and revamped by the Virtual Team here and released in a few sets (Mae Young's She's a Diva-saurus! & "...the Sweeter the Juice!", and Mexicool's Juan Deere Tractor to name a couple).... and I can tell all of you that don't already know, that it takes a heck of a lot of time, effort and commitment to design and create EACH of these beautiful cards that the Virtual TCO Team works tirelessly to provide for us all.

Now, the creative aspects of the cards that come out each set, are also nothing short of brilliant. I am not sure who the main brainchild or two is at TCO that comes up with the Superstar abilities and new arsenal and backstage cards, but I am amazed at how they always seem to have something fresh and fun to offer, with a new spin on a rule or deck building override... and they almost always make the abilities and Superstars play in a way that is fitting to their in-ring personas and true to kayfabe. This creative team really manages to show off how awesome RAW DEAL really is and what the true potential is of this BEAST of a CCG!
Do you see other CCGs coming up with fresh ideas that are rarely redundant like TCO does? Look at Pokemon for example.... all they do is release 3 new sets a year (which is almost the same speed as our TCO Virtual Raw Deal brothers do), and yet all the creators of Pokemon do, is keep recycling abilities and trainers over and over to different characters set after set, stealing all the creative aspects from previous releases, which is super boring.... and NOTHING COMPARED to what the TCO team produces each year FOR FREE!!!

It is still NOTHING short of amazing what you guys do and have done consistently over the past decade. And the fact that you police things too and keep everyone up to date on rules and card conflicts,... and you go back and errata cards to reflect updates and minimize loopholes or exploitations,... and the art team updates the artwork and offers alternate Superstar artwork to reflect changes to wrestlers in the current WWE all the time... it's overwhelming what you have done.... It really is, ESPECIALLY when you put into perspective the salaries you all take home from TCO to do all this, lol.. which is N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

Sometimes we think about you guys locked up in a basement somewhere creating Raw Deal cards all day, wondering what happened to your spouses, children, and loved ones?... wondering if your catching as much grief from all of them over your unwavering devotion to RAW DEAL, as much as the rest of us managers, who are merely playing the game and enjoying all the fruit of your labors, have over the years.

Soooo...... THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.... THANK YOU ALL... Thank you CREED, DAEVA, MITCH, TIM ... and all the unsung heroes of the TCO Virtual Raw Deal Team whose names I don't know.... for this decade of brilliance and the evolution of one of the greatest CCGs ever made... you have brought and continue to bring countless hours of fun, smack talk, and rules arguments to us here in Houston!

-Jay / P6 Commish

P.S.: I am serious CREED, sign me up as an official TCO Donor. I have been asking you for years, but I finally want to put my money where my mouth is and do my part to help the movement, the cause, the fight, .... and better late then never.... lol.. so on behalf of the P6 Peeps, thank you again and tell me where to send my donation!!!   :D

Well... I really like the idea that XtremeWRATH had about Balor... that sounds cool... to have Balor on one side and The Demon King on the other, maybe with some cool Backstage mechanism that flips it at a certain time. You could print both cards and pack them in a clear sleeve back to back. You would have to decide on which to start the match with based on the opposing abilities, and then something good or bad triggers the change, whatever the creators decide. That sounds really fun.

That being said about Balor... I really agreed with The Hurricane's Top 5 WISH list for the most part, with Roode being the least favorite for me.

My Houston League, the P6 Peeps, would really like to see:
1) Enzo Amore (although his future is all but dead in the WWE now going forward, I seriously hope he is innocent), he was a lot of fun.
2) Bo Dallas (Don't ask me why, but ever since his logo was included on that V8 card, we have a couple of guys salivating, lol)
3) Nia Jax  (Another couple of managers in my league would love to build her)

...and I know you said no old guys Creed, but these next 2 suggestions are very relevant in 2017 & 2018 WWE:

4) Kurt Angle / RAW GM
5) Shane McMahon / Commissioner

Honorable mentions : Elias & Jason Jordan

Rules Forum / Re: The black sheep mask
« on: January 23, 2018, 08:48:35 PM »
That was exactly how I was going to rule it as well based on the definition of a hybrid card in the Omni... That when a hybrid card is successfully played into the ring area it at that point counts as both card types in the ring

But I wanted to check and see what other people thought as well to make sure I wasn't being biased.... Since it is a common known fact that I hate Braun Strowman, hehe

Rules Forum / The black sheep mask
« on: January 23, 2018, 08:26:48 PM »
Okay so Braun Strowman's The Black Sheep Mask says,  "Your opponent's non-Superstar specific, non-maneuver cards do not count for his fortitude"

So what happens if you successfully play a hybrid maneuver / reversal and you play it as a reversal or you successfully play a hybrid maneuver / action and play it as an action... Once those cards are in your ring area do you have to keep track of whether they were played as reversals or actions on one side and then the hybrids that were played as Maneuvers on another side?... so you know which is active fortitude and which is non-usable fortitude based on the Black Sheep Mask effects?

Rules Forum / Re: Douchebag
« on: January 23, 2018, 08:21:57 PM »
Right so I still have to discard the two cards in order to be able to reverse it but douchebag will work assuming I have 8 fortitude.

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