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Messages - BigPimpin

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Welcome (back) to Raw Deal / Re: Crowdsourcing Virtual Starter Decks
« on: January 09, 2020, 09:52:47 AM »
One of the things I did yesterday thinking about this - I built a deck that has as many virtual cards as possible (utilizing the "lesser" TBs where needed).  The closest I was able to come was 60 cards out of 60 for Arsenal and 22 of 24 for Backlash.  Other than Elbow (which I ignored in favor of lesser reversals that I would normally cut), Underrated, and Showtime, I feel like it would have been a viable deck.  The positive here is that we have most of a solid reversal base down in a Virtual game. 

Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake - The superstar for whom I did the above experiment.  Focus on Virtual moves, underrated Backstage card, ability to take a hit and not be out of it is all good things.

Any non-remake who can pack Classic Competitor in general - Classic is a maneuver base that has continued to garner support, and Classic Competitor is the tool that negates the downside of the Classics. 

Chris Masters - simple ability to understand, eminently useful no matter what types of maneuvers are run.  Only one non-Virtual support card, and you can live without for the moment.

4H - high value, simple SSA, support as a Legend/Tag Team/Stable, Face/Heel pack further shores up the reversal base.

Brain Busters - ability can be ignored, but the ability to jump the Fort Curve on your opponent's turn is pretty large.  Legend/Tag Team/Heenan Family Member

Raw Guest Host - ability that can be ignored.  While not as good at it as Beefcake, RGH can live on Classics and the various Unique maneuvers.  -8F on all your moves is nothing to sneeze at.

Umaga - simple ability, powerful cards - probably a level 2 deck with the pre and the mid to remember.

Legacy - For newcomers, I'm a fan of decks that have a lot of specifics to simplify deck building.  Legacy/Priceless are one of the few "load o' specifics" decks that doesn't add in non-Virual specifics to the deck.  Legacy over Priceless because the ability is simple enough to understand and execute and doesn't interfere with a deck building concept if the player wants to go crazy.

Heath Slater - simple, powerful ability, gives a direction with The One Man Rock Band. 

Cody Rhodes - I only bring up Cody because he's popular on another program now - leave him Liberated and his cards are great and somewhat simple but his ability requires a Steiner Math degree to fully get.

Lone Warrior TB - take the Backlash deck out of their hands, draw 2 per turn, nice card base.  Loses points for needing 5 Goldberg specifics.

Dusty Rhodes - another slightly complex ability, but the fact that he can run 3 copies of Classics in his deck means he can pick and choose the good ones and run three copies.  Legend support.

Samoa Joe - once you get the hang of the mechanic, he's relatively easy to execute.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: 2020 Bottom of the Barrel Thread
« on: January 08, 2020, 08:58:16 AM »
I'm guessing you mean classic, and not Revolution Sabu.  :)

By the way, it's helpful to share why you've found them to be lacking, what they aren't doing, etc. It helps look at the weak points, and identify room for specific improvement. (Not singling you out, ESGR, just speaking generally)  :)


Yes, i meant classic Sabu. Generally, he do not have a easy way to get fort. i meant i try play foreign object, chain, blank maneuvers with drawing a blank. by the time i get the fort, probably in a pinch of getting backslide, inside cradle for pinfall.

Have you had the opportunity to Backed by RVD into a Shoot Lockup?  That was always my backup plan on getting started.  It requires the Shoot Lockup to be in hand, but once it is you can search for a Chair Shot to make it happen.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: 2020 Bottom of the Barrel Thread
« on: January 06, 2020, 07:03:02 AM »
In my experience with Sabu, he's proven to be a difficult deck build in some aspects.  He's got some advantages for sure (10 SHS + Underrated, ECW ONS in the backstage, HFS in the backstage) but HFS and ECW are two areas of the game that don't naturally mesh with regards to deck builds (or I have a mental block on it for some reason).  I haven't given it a good shot since Cruiserweight Style Action came out, though, so maybe it's time to dig him up and try again.

Updated the list with recent suggestions.  Thank you to all who have partaken in this thread so far. 

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: 2020 Bottom of the Barrel Thread
« on: December 30, 2019, 10:05:07 PM »
One thing I should add, and it's a mistake I can speak from experience on:

Not commonly played does not equal not good.  Sometimes real-life popularity affects play rates, sometimes people would just rather play other superstars.  No one in my playgroup plays CM Punk, for example, but you'll never convince me he's not good.  He's just, for whatever reason, not commonly played by me.

Love everything else so far, keep it coming.  I'm keeping track of the list for now in the lead thread.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: 2020 Bottom of the Barrel Thread
« on: December 30, 2019, 02:22:14 PM »

Drywall, to clarify - do you mean Vickie Guerrero or Victoria here?

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: 2020 Bottom of the Barrel Thread
« on: December 30, 2019, 11:09:48 AM »
Thanks all.  I'm keeping a short list at the top of the thread so we can keep track.

Virtual Raw Deal / 2020 Bottom of the Barrel Thread
« on: December 30, 2019, 09:49:14 AM »
As a designer of cards, I usually have a lot of my focus on the top-end of the Raw Deal metagame when comparing and contrasting superstars with one another.  Example - for the Then/Now/Forever set, I asked myself things like "is Pete Dunne Tier 1?", or "what's the optimal Jim Cornette build?".  Every now and again, though, I like to take my focus off of the top of the mountain and see who's at the bottom with no hope of climbing.  That's where I'd like to ask for assistance from the guys and gals that make up the Raw Deal universe.

I'd like you guys and gals to tell me who are, in your opinion, the "bad" superstars in Raw Deal.  Those that, no matter what is done with them, are just not cut out to win matches consistently.  So we can keep this orderly and track able, I'd like everyone to keep the following in mind:

1) I'm looking for between 1 and 3 superstars that, in your opinion, just don't have the ability to "cut it" in Raw Deal these days.  If there's more, put 'em down.

2) Reasons and/or constructive criticism would be helpful so we can understand why the superstar is "bad". 

3) Please keep in mind that personal attacks or other breaches of TCO's rules will not be tolerated.  This is not an excuse to reach out and flame someone on how a superstar is designed.

To give an example, I'll put one down I've had in the back of my head to start this off (and yes I know I'm wordy, you don't have to be as in depth):

Rene Dupree - Despite an early hand advantage through Pre-Match cards like Managed by Fifi and It's Hard Being This Original, if Rene can't take that early advantage into an insurmountable lead, he'll eventually be ground to dust.  Also, AIUU's discard text has lost a lot of power since all Rookie/NXT superstars are immune to it.  Everyone around him does what he does but better - British Bulldog has no pack restriction can take Backlash cards from his Ring as well as Backlash and recover, Latino Cheat can pack the normal compliment of reversals (his restriction is on playing more than one, not packing more than one) and has a superior give-back of searching for cards instead of drawing. 

Looking forward to hear who you think is the bottom of the barrel going into 2020.

The Short List (from comments below):
Rene Dupree
Honky Tonk Man
Bam Bam Bigelow
Dean Malenko
Ted DiBiase Jr
Trish Stratus
Vickie Guerrero
The Revival
The Colons
Gene Snitsky
Paul Heyman
Santino Marella
Legion Of Doom
Wade Barrett
Mr. Perfect
Stevie Richards
Team Hell No
Raw Guest Host
Natural Disasters
Muhammad Hassan
The Ultimate Warrior

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
« on: December 20, 2019, 10:13:29 AM »
hell yeah, Pete Dunne!!!
Split Finger Lock time???

To the bitter end.

Rules Forum / Re: Intensity of ten cities and no more shenanigans
« on: September 01, 2019, 07:07:35 AM »
The answer to the original question is - maybe.

Assuming the opponent is willing to overturn the 1 card, what NMS does is prevent I10C from going to the bottom of the Arsenal as the activation cost and instead removes it from the game.  But the activation is still pending, so whether or not The Home Team gets to shuffle 10 in that situation depends on whether the opponent reverses the Activated Card Effect.  If they do not, then you shuffle 10, but if they do, then you don't. 

Virtual Deck Reviews / Re: Looking for Virtual Decklists
« on: August 28, 2019, 01:03:51 PM »
Out of curiosity, what New Deal deck on YouTube do you mean?

One of the videos is here.  However, this is rated NSFW for the savage savage beating that was laid upon poor Los Cheese.

This is a great time for this conversation, as everything about how we determine the World Championships is under review the next couple of weeks so we can decide what's going on moving forward.  More opinions are always welcome.

The one thing I'll add to the discussion right now is that at Gencon, we had events that sold out and/or were well-attended.  The cubes did well and the intros did well, and what that tells me is that there's still interest in Raw Deal as a game even if the barrier of acquiring cards keeps people from coming out to full events.  There's plenty we need to review, fix, and change before we can reach better tournament numbers, and that's part of the discussion about Worlds, Gencon, and tournament attendance in general.  But there is still interest in this game, and usually all it takes is people playing it once or twice before they start asking "Hey, how do I get into this?"

There are members that are not receiving topic reply notifications and am wondering if this feature is working for anybody. If so, please let me know.

My last topic reply received was in February.

Please reply to this topic (I've notify'd it) and I'll let you know if I get this one.

Classic Raw Deal / Re: Best and worst world champion cards
« on: July 17, 2019, 05:54:07 AM »
Far as I know, Canu was before they did the cards for World Champs.  Pretty sure he was on First of All as kind of a consolation "here's your card," but I can't confirm that.

I don't know what Chad made, but Polverino #2 is Desperate Struggle.

If you're asking about the state of the game now, Allentown and My New Gimmick are in a category all their own when it comes to unplayable/bad.  My New Gimmick doesn't do enough to justify the pack and Allentown is an All Axxess card in a world where AA has been devalued.  For those that slag Don't Be "That" Guy, it got MUCH better after the revision. 

On the other side, D-Bag is the only true must pack, so by default is your winner.  But you can make a case for at least three or four others.

Some of them deserve special mention for being bombs in an era.  Example: Road to Victory changed EVERYTHING upon release, but over time its impact was less and less an issue since people trained themselves to build around it.

General Chat / Re: Level 37 Achieved!
« on: July 09, 2019, 01:30:06 PM »
Happy +1 day!

Rules Forum / Re: A really stupid Sandman question
« on: June 10, 2019, 03:15:06 PM »
Sandman's Singapore Stash
Backstage Card
Can only be packed by Sandman.
Twice during each of your turns, you may discard 1 card and then play 1 card from your hand face-down; while played, it is considered to have the same card type, text, title and Damage as a maneuver in your Backstage Area.
Your face-down cards are considered to be titled Struck by a Kendo Stick instead and are Foreign Objects.
Unique     RMS logo     ECW logo

If you pack the non-throwback Kendo in your backstage is the stun value copied also or no?

No, it does not have the Stun. 

Classic Raw Deal / Re: Emma?! Help?
« on: June 10, 2019, 07:33:44 AM »
I mean - the question is kind of broad - with what you outlined below, you're currently using 5 x Packed Pre-Match cards and 3 x slots (including #Emmalution); are you packing Emmas Dance Moves as a Pre or Mid?  And are you playing it in the pre?  EDIT: Also, if you're running out of Pre-Match, are you running out of pack slots or play slots?

I playtested a fair amount of Emma, so I can definitely try to help, but I'm not seeing the overall plan here.  Is it just hand advantage city?

Virtual Deck Reviews / Re: 8th Wonder of the World / Back to Basics
« on: June 10, 2019, 07:24:11 AM »
8th Wonder, despite losing Giant Eiffel Tower, is a pretty good B2B deck in theory since he can protect his hand more easily from hand nukes.

Some initial tips I can offer:

1) You NEED 3 x Manager Interferes.  Like, must have, no question.
2) You NEED at least 2 x Don't Try This At Home.  Again, no question, as there's too many ACE's that devastate you in the world to go without protection.
3) Have you considered the backstage card Legendary Defense?  As a legend, you get the ability to pack that, and it gives you back 6 spots to put other cards into the deck.
4) Your Backlash deck is short cards - in the Virtual era, the Backlash deck may contain 12 Pre-Match cards and 12 Mid-Match cards, and you may play 6 of each.  Your current outline only has 10 Pre Match and 10 Mid-Match.  My suggestions for you to look at with regards to the two extra cards:
 -Pre-Match: A Foundation of Old School Wrestling and Old School Beating #3
 -Mid-Match: Restricted Use In This Area and Old School Raw.
5) I would also seriously consider replacing Save Da Drama... for Turning Everything Upside Down or You're As Graceful As A Cow On Ice.  With the reversals you have access to in the deck, it'll be rare that you are hit with two high risks in the same turn (unless of course Eddie is involved).  However, either of the two cards mentioned not only stop the second High Risk but also can stop waves of actions.

Beyond that, it's a matter of practice and seeing what cards work in your local scene.  You may find Hold the Phone useful - maybe you need a Lift a Boot in case Shane O' Mac is running wild.  Maybe some B2B moves are better than others and you'd like to make space for other cards in your Arsenal.  That will come with more practice and playing games to see what you like better. 

Classic Raw Deal / Re: Backstage Politics
« on: June 10, 2019, 06:45:41 AM »
In the original print run of Raw Deal, feuds were basically untouchable, because they had a ton of gimmick feuds around which to build decks (WWE Homecoming, Major Announcement, B2B, First of All).  You will be extremely hard-pressed to blank Politics at any point during the game as RTC - you pretty much have to stick a Waist Lock while it's in their ring.

Classic Raw Deal / Re: Top 5 Best and Top 5 Worst Superstars
« on: June 10, 2019, 06:40:57 AM »
How in the bloody blue hell is BFM "bad"??!?!?!?!?!? Sorry I can't wrap my head around THAT

They only released until V5.  May 19 hasn't come out for them yet, that was in V7

Superstar Strategy Session / Re: Superstar Strategy Session #5: Umaga
« on: April 24, 2019, 10:25:43 AM »
You CAN pack tribal trouble chain Samoan drop with Bash,12766.msg154496.html#msg154496

All in all, I still find chain Umaga to be the most stable build. I’d like to throw in a Zack Ryder GRA if I’m running unbreakable chain to forcefully continue my turn as well.

I don't think that works the way you think it does.

There's actually two "end of turn" events that happen with that scenario, and Zac(h)k Ryder GRA only stops the reversal that stuffs your Unbreakable Chain.  It doesn't help the one where the Chain maneuver is reversed (unless you have a second Unbreakable Chain to try and it succeeds).

Superstar Strategy Session / Re: Superstar Strategy Session #4: Asuka
« on: April 18, 2019, 06:18:00 AM »
These are awesome!  Just a quick designer's note on Nobody Is Ready For Asuka!, we had the discard as part of the ability but it felt too good with Back to Basics.  Splitting it up onto a non-B2B compatible Pre-match (and adding the obvious 'go first' thematic effect) seemed like a good balance.

Also, we intentionally wanted a Superstar that didn't fall into the 'normal' builds, and the unusual offense of Asuka played into it well.


I feel like she should get
Educated Feet
Kick of Death
Japanese Flag

Public school is free - anyone can Educate their Feet by packing it.  :) 

On the other two:
1) We try to not have people chase URs from a game no longer in print, so we wouldn't outright give her Tajiri's Kick of Death.  However, Asuka will get some support so long as she maintains her status on the roster, so adding more Asuka moves isn't out of the realm of possibility.  Not a spoiler, nor a promise - just an observation.
2) I know she's Japanese - but did she really wave the Flag all that much?  The people who got the Japanese flag card were generally people for whom someone waved the flag all the way down the aisle consistently.  Taka and Funaki did it for Kaientai, someone did it for Yoko - for those guys it was a part of their everyday gimmick.  For Asuka - I don't recall it being part of her normal.  Did I miss something? 

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: Raw (Deal) after Mania [No Spoilers]
« on: April 09, 2019, 02:20:46 AM »
Amazing.  We're not worthy.

Online Organized Play / Re: Lackey tournament #14 .... Take two???
« on: February 25, 2019, 11:17:13 AM »
Since I have a move to do this month that will take me offline for 1-2 weeks most likely, I'm going to be extra-aggressive on matchups this week.  Esp Saturday, where I have to be home and available for work (but likely will not need to).  Anyone interested in setting up a time, holler at me so we can get it done. 

Classic Raw Deal / RD In Raleigh?
« on: February 19, 2019, 09:42:19 AM »
So my job is transferring me to Raleigh (probably April).

Is there anyone who plays Raw Deal in the Raleigh, NC area? 

Online Organized Play / Re: Lackey tournament #14 .... Take two???
« on: February 14, 2019, 04:34:59 PM »
Ill bring the United States of Nakamura to the party.

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