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Messages - Daeva

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Gaming Discussion (Everything Else) / Re: Boardgame Apps on Mobile
« on: August 14, 2018, 06:00:42 PM »
So, the thing about Talisman... it's one of those games that you need to play with other people, because a big part of the game is the schadenfreude that you feel when another player gets close to winning and then dies horribly because they can't roll better than a 2. Playing with AIs is kinda... flat.

Excellent, thank you for following up on that, CRASHER.

Easy, fellas. Let's focus on fixing the problem.

Rules Forum / Re: Poke vs Two Time Two Time
« on: August 10, 2018, 09:03:57 PM »
Re: Two-Time: Rule #0.5 of Raw Deal is "cards do what they say they do"; if something specifically says that it does something normally impossible (barring any outside meddling), then it can perform that impossible act.

Re: Hardcore Holly GRA reversing Poke: No. FAQ:

Hardcore Holly, Guest Ring Announcer
-If Clutch onto Opponent is named, this card is able to reverse Clutch when activated.
-This card cannot be used with Atomic Back Body Drop, Atomic Lariat, and other cards that require specific ‘reversal cards,’ as Hardcore is not a reversal card.

The bolded line would not be present if Hardcore Holly GRA bypassed all reversal restrictions. The Clutch situation is the way that it is because naming Clutch makes Hardcore Holly GRA's ACE specifically reverse Clutch, because... it specifically reverses Clutch and nothing else. Naming Clutch makes it a legal reversal for Clutch because that's what Clutch looks for. (Likewise, naming Clutch with The Hitman will let you use Hitman to hit Clutch.)

So what's the difference? The difference is that Hardcore Holly doesn't specifically say "I reverse Poke," he says "pick something and I'll reverse it, barring anything that stops me." Picking something isn't sufficient to trigger Rule #0.5 (which is a term that I've just coined, since Rule #0 is "the cards trump the rulebook"), it has to be a specific callout printed on the card.

(Fun upshot of this: Oklahoma Roll and Shove Off the Top Rope reverse Superplex TB from hand because they specifically say that they nail Superplex.)

Gaming Discussion (Everything Else) / Re: Smash Ultimate
« on: August 10, 2018, 02:48:09 PM »
That makes me wonder... why has Birdo never shown up in Smash, apart from being a stage hazard in Mushroom Kingdom II?

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: inside cradle to a multi
« on: August 09, 2018, 02:07:13 PM »
niiiiiiiiiiiick is correct. You wouldn't even get to the point of being able to reverse again, let alone taking damage from the maneuver. You'd win during step 8 of Inside Cradle's Timing Sequence, which is resolved in full before you continue with the Multi's Timing Sequence. Once you win, the game is over, and you can't perform more game actions because there's no more game to perform them in!

I cant wait to throw an 8f precision haymaker with nakamura and have it hit twice lol

Don't hold your breath. The RMS won't let you fiddle with the number of times a maneuver can deal damage (just like Batista can't make an RMS reversal deal damage 0 times).

Also, we're still fiddling with Nakamura in playtesting, so take everything so far with a grain of salt.

Rules Forum / Re: A couple shinsuke questions.
« on: August 08, 2018, 10:04:18 AM »
I'm going to lock this thread temporarily while we discuss some things in the PT forum. Hold tight, folks.

Rules Forum / Re: A couple shinsuke questions.
« on: August 06, 2018, 06:19:01 PM »
Newbie question here, please be gentle:

1.) isn't applying damage different than applying card text?
2.) isn't stun a trait? if not, what is it classified as?
3.) shinsuke has to discard 1 card an announce intentions to apply damage twice; if the maneuver is reversed once the effect is lost, correct?
4.) will reversing the second damage application trigger card text as if it were a reversed maneuver?
5.) the second damage application...this doesn't carry the previous card text including restrictions, does it?

Applying damage is different than applying card text, as per the Timing Breakdown posted in my signature.

Stun is a trait. (Specifically, a sub-class trait that only applies to maneuvers.)

Shinsuke cycles a card to declare his intention to apply damage twice when the card is a legal play, in step 2e. If the card is unsuccessful, it never gets to Step 9 to deal damage, so it can't apply damage twice, or at all.

Reversing either instance of Damage (or both, if you're fancy) counts as reversing the card from Arsenal for Counter, etc.

The second Damage application is identical to the first when it comes to reversal restrictions, etc. It's still Damage from the qualifying maneuver, it's an exact duplicate of the first.

Re: Over Sell Maneuver: Over Sell replaces one instance of Damage. Apply the second normally (including being able to reverse it from Arsenal) and then the turn will end.

Each instance of Damage triggers Stun separately.

Rules Forum / Re: A couple shinsuke questions.
« on: August 06, 2018, 01:51:26 PM »
The second application of Damage can be reversed as normal and draws Stun as normal.

The second application of Damage applies whatever damage was derived by the time that Step 8 rolls around. In practice, that means that every Damage modifier that was applied to the card applies to both instances, EXCEPT Sustained Damage, which has to be used separately for each instance of Damage because of its very specific wording. So Not in Front of the Kids will knock 4D off of both applications, using Nakamura's Ability on a card affected by Brahma Bull deals 1D twice, etc.

Big congratulations on the huge win, SRH! Start thinking about your champion's card now, because we've got to beat it from pillar to post in playtesting.

So, when I take a strike from Shinsuke and I decide to ACE Sustained Damage.

Do I:
1. take the reduced damage twice?
2. take the reduced damage once, then the full damage (which I can sustain again)?

eg. Shinsuke hits a Dirty Low Blow TB on me, I use SD to reduce the damage to 0 by discarding 1 card, do I take 0, then have to proc SD again for the next 2 damage or do I take 0 damage twice?

Sustained Damage triggers immediately before you take damage. Nakamura makes two separate instances of the maneuver's damage, so you Sustain down each instance separately. (For the inevitable "which Damage level do I follow-up off of?" question: both; in practice, only the higher one will matter.)

Each instance of damage from Nakamura's Ability needs to be reversed separately from Arsenal; stopping the first from Arsenal doesn't negate the second. (Reversing either instance on the overturn will end the turn once both instances are dealt.)

Nakamura needs to signal that he intends to deal damage twice before his opponent gets a chance to reverse. If the opponent renders the card unsuccessful, it can't deal damage at all, and Nakamura's Ability is wasted (apart from the card cycling).

If Asuka's opponent's hand is completely empty when her maneuver is unsuccessful, the opponent will simply draw a card.

Gaming Discussion (Everything Else) / Re: Boardgame Apps on Mobile
« on: August 04, 2018, 12:48:21 PM »
By "board game apps," do you mean apps that emulate board games, or apps that are companions to board games?

For the latter, I can heartily recommend the Dead of Winter Crossroads app. It replaces the Crossroads deck, adds a narrator to read the Crossroads cards, and most importantly, it hides the results of the Crossroads actions until you tap them, for another layer of immersion.

The Sheriff of Nottingham app is also really handy, both as a timer for the inspection round and to help you score the game. Instead of everyone busting out their calculator and ticking away, the app can figure out the most-of-goods bonuses for you.

For apps that emulate board games, my most-played is the Onirim app. Onirim is a solitaire card game, and it translates to an app perfectly. I also enjoy the apps for Star Realms and Ascension, and Ascension supports up to 4 humans or AI players.

Rules Forum / Re: Intellectual Savior
« on: July 30, 2018, 02:20:59 PM »
dilbert is not only stamped for correctitude, but top marks for using the Timing Breakdown, stickied in this very forum (and in my signature!) to deliver the correct answer.

Rules Forum / Re: Live Sex Celebration
« on: July 29, 2018, 11:34:45 AM »
Drywall is stamped for correctitude.

Rules Forum / Re: Hello all some rules questions part 1
« on: July 25, 2018, 08:44:52 AM »
Running Lariat's no-Elbow protection doesn't make it vulnerable to Sidewalk Slam TB or Not According to the Fine Print. A card has to be made completely irreversible to be reversible by those two cards; any sort of piecemeal irreversibility doesn't cut it. Nico is correct on that count.

Beating the Odds is worded differently. It cares about any effect with "cannot be reversed" in the text, even conditional or piecemeal ones. Popping Beating the Odds to Elbow a Running Lariat is completely legal, as is popping Beating the Odds to reverse a Claw from hand, etc.

Rules Forum / Re: Hello all some rules questions part 1
« on: July 23, 2018, 04:56:01 PM »
In the interest of full disclosure: I was a playtester during the Revolution sets, and heavily involved in this very Rules Forum from Insurrextion onward. I got on Barron and Mike's radar by getting my shot at Worlds from being the #1 ranked player in the world from July 2005 to June 2006. During Raw Deal's print run, I was never involved with shaping or managing its rules in any official form. I kinda wish that things had worked out differently and I'd gotten a chance to lend a hand with the rules sooner (I remember interpreting card wordings during Rev3 playtesting), but things didn't work out that way.

Rules Forum / Re: Overshot
« on: July 23, 2018, 04:51:17 PM »
Dilbert's got it on the mark.

Deck Reviews - Classic / Re: Kurt Angle
« on: July 23, 2018, 11:52:25 AM »
Considering that the OP hasn't logged into TCO in four years, I don't think that he'll be able to see your advice.

Rules Forum / Re: Hello all some rules questions part 1
« on: July 23, 2018, 11:07:09 AM »
Also, as for the reasoning on Sidewalk Slam TB: It says that it reverses anything that cannot be reversed. It does not say, "Reverse any card with the words 'cannot be reversed' in the text." "Cannot be reversed" is a specific condition, and Sidewalk Slam TB's text says that it specifically looks for that condition. If that condition is not there, it's not valid. The FAQ backs this up:

Sidewalk Slam (Throwback)
-This card cannot be played as a reversal to a card which has only a reversal restriction.  EXAMPLE:  Atomic Bear Hug cannot be reversed from the opponent’s hand - Sidewalk Slam will not reverse ABH unless that card has another effect which independently makes it fully irreversible.
-Conditions which separately remove the ability to reverse, but do not wholly make the card irreversible, will not allow for reversal with Sidewalk Slam.  EXAMPLE:  Activating The Title’s on the Line! and playing Wheelbarrow Slam cannot be reversed with Sidewalk Slam.

Another helpful FAQ entry to help clear this logic up is for a previous card that reverses unreversibles, Not According to the Fine Print.

Not According to the Fine Print!
ERRATA: The card now reads “Can only be played if the card titled Signed Contract with Linda McMahon OR Backed by Mr. McMahon is in your Ring area.  Reverse any completely irreversible card and end your opponent’s turn.”
-The game considers “Cannot be reversed”, “May not be reversed” and “Can not be reversed” to all be the same term.  Not According to the Fine Print will affect cards that have these statements on them.
-Fine Print will reverse a card if the text states that it cannot be reversed, or an effect makes the card irreversible.
-Fine Print will not reverse a card that that cannot be reversed from a certain area only. EXAMPLE: Dirty Low Blow or Claw.
-If separate reversal restrictions overlap to create a card that cannot be reversed from any area, Fine Print cannot be used as a Reversal - the card must be completely irreversible from one source.  EXAMPLE:  Sledge Hammer Shot states it cannot be reversed from Arsenal, if used in conjuction with The Title Is On the Line, a player has no opportunity to reverse this Maneuver; however, Fine Print cannot be used.

Sidewalk Slam TB and Fine Print both look for the same condition to reverse, so their eligibility is the same. (The game considers "cannot be reversed" and "completely irreversible" to be the same thing, in the same umbrella as "may not be reversed" and "can not be reversed.")

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: Thumbs up Thumbs down
« on: July 23, 2018, 12:37:24 AM »
If you somehow played Thumbs Up/Down on a card that does not have damage to apply (like, say, a Revolution Pre-match, a Title Belt, or a face-down with no Damage identity grafted onto it), the turn would not end and Thumbs would just sit in the Ring...


... twiddling its thumbs.

Otherwise, Hogtrail is correct. Applying 0 damage is still applying damage.

Also: don't ask me HOW you would end up playing Thumbs to a Pre-match card or Title Belt, since it can't be played during the Pre-match.

Rules Forum / Re: Hello all some rules questions part 2
« on: July 23, 2018, 12:26:59 AM »
So what you are saying is that the player with highest superstar value has "priority" as he/she gets to resolve prematch effects first?

I specifically avoided using the word in quotes, because of the baggage that it carries from Magic.

When both players have passed on playing Pre-match cards and drawn (modified) Starting Hands, the player with the highest Superstar Value resolves all of his "at the end of the Pre-match phase" effects. Once he has resolved all of his "at the end of the Pre-match phase" effects, (this is the part where A No Show triggers, if applicable) the opponent resolves all of his.

If I had called that "priority," it could have implied that there is some sort of back-and-forth there, like I resolve 1 end-of-PM effect because I'm higher SSV, then you resolve one, then I resolve my second, then you resolve your second, etc, and that's not how end-of-PM effects work.

Rules Forum / Re: Divine
« on: July 23, 2018, 12:22:49 AM »
Divine Intervention only gets removed from the game if it actually reverses something. It lacks the text to reverse anything during the Pre-match phase, so it won't get removed.

Rules Forum / Re: Turn the Tables!
« on: July 23, 2018, 12:20:45 AM »
Hogtrail's accurate. You don't need to meet any play requirements on the Stipulation, because you're not playing it.

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