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Messages - darkdestiny91

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Meanwhile, I'll confirm two very obvious and expected names:  Finn Bálor and Shinsuke Nakamura.


This would be interesting! Balor would be interesting and I can't wait to see what TCO will do with his gimmick!

Fantasy Cards / Re: Bobby Roode
« on: April 19, 2018, 05:40:42 PM »
...Look no TNA bit is getting made into a card before I get a 141 and 2/3rds percent card for Big Poppa Pump.

As long as it spells disaster for Senor Joe at Sackerfice, I'll be all for it!

The ones being teased right now off the top of my head are:
1. Emma
2. Enzo & Cass
3. Carmella
4. Bo Dallas
5. Adam Rose?
6. Curtis Axel
7. Ascension
8. Samoa Joe
9. Tyson Kidd
10. Kevin Thorn

Out of these, I really hope to get Joe, Carmella, Ascension, Bo, Curtis and Emma soon. But of course, I do hope we get some surprises that haven't seen much teasing yet like Asuka and Nakamura but they can wait. Can't wait for December to arrive faster so we can get our holiday set fix for the year!  :laugh:

Rules Forum / Re: Need help on a timing issue
« on: April 17, 2018, 09:54:58 PM »
Short answer
Yes you can target the successfully played maneuver.  If you do, its text and damage do not apply, but outside effects will.

It's a game rule that a card that leaves the Ring no longer has an effect on the game (unless the card moves itself as part of the timing sequence - see Iron Will).

Let's walk through the timing breakdown together assuming you meet the requirements to use Managed by Paul Heyman as the question asks. I'll quote the relevant steps at the bottom for reference.

Timing Step 6 - opponent's maneuver is successful and goes to the Ring.
Timing Step 7a - any outside "successfully played" effects for the player who played the maneuver fire - draw 1 for Managed by Lita, recover one for Flawless Execution, Heidenreich Superstar Ability, etc.
Timing Step 7b - now any of YOUR outside effects for his successfully played maneuvers fire.  This is where the text of Paul Heyman Guy works.  Managed by Paul Heyman activates immediately (and your opponent cannot reverse it because he cannot use reversal effects on his turn).  Since the successful maneuver is in the Ring as of Step 6, it can be targeted as long as it's a non-Backlash card (as Managed by Paul Heyman can't touch Backlash deck cards).   

Here's where the above game rule comes in.  The second you kick the maneuver to the Ringside, it no longer affects the game, ending the timing breakdown.  Which means that the text (normally resolved in step 8 ) and damage (step 9) are not there anymore, so there's nothing to resolve.

6 The card is now 'Successfully Played' and enters the Ring Area.  If this card is reversing the card in question (it is not the first reversal to a Multi, it is not Over Sell Maneuver), the affected maneuver is now considered reversed. (Any text on the card and any Traits on the card are considered to be in your Ring Area after this step is complete. This excludes text that would modify or trigger in any of the first six steps.)
6a Some cards are put into the Ringside Pile or other area instead of going to the Ring Area (Iron Will etc.) The Timing Breakdown still continues as normal, these cards never enter the Ring Area.  They will resolve during the text resolution (Step 8) at that time, and will still resolve to its destination even if blanked.

7a Effects you control (other than this card's text taking place when played or when successful played) that trigger on a Successfully Played card take place. In the event of more than one effect, you choose which order they occur.
7b Effects your opponent controls that trigger on a Successfully Played card take place. Opponent chooses the order. (This is where cards such as Over Sell Maneuver and Sustained Damage are played.)

8 Apply effects listed on the card, unless these effects take place ‘when played’ or ‘when this card is in’ a specified area.

9a Chance for activated damage modification (Sustained Damage, Los Guerreros)
9b Damage is overturned one card at a time. Appropriate reversals may be overturned.  (This is also the Step where cards are overturned for Raw & Ready, Over Sell Maneuver, and other cards that replace damage with overturning cards.)
9c Effects generated from resolving a maneuver’s damage may be performed by the player of the original card (searching for a Chain card, for example)
9d Effects generated from resolving a maneuver’s damage may be performed by the opponent (Jamie Noble’s superstar ability, activating There’s No Holding Me Back)
9e Any ‘end the turn’ effects are resolved, along with any effects triggered by ending the turn.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Really appreciate it!!

Rules Forum / Re: Need help on a timing issue
« on: April 17, 2018, 01:43:22 AM »
I think the wrong card was referenced.  Likely this is what we're actually talking about:

I'm a Paul Heyman Guy
Mid-match Action + Action: Run-in
Cannot be packed by Paul Heyman.  Cannot be reversed when you have a card with 'Heyman' in the title in your Ring.
Search your Arsenal and Ringside for Paul Heyman's Shoot Promo, reveal it, put it into your hand, and shuffle; that card is -4F and cannot be reversed.
When your opponent has at least 15 greater Fortitude and he successfully plays a maneuver, you may ignore the 'during your turn' text on your Managed by Paul Heyman and immediately Activate it.
F: 3     D: 0     Unique     Multi


Ah yes, I was checking for someone in my playgroup and forgot to actually check if the text was the right one. Just wanted to ask if it works on your opponent's turn in such a case, how would the timing breakdown function?

Rules Forum / Need help on a timing issue
« on: April 14, 2018, 09:10:13 PM »
Recently, our playgroup has been discussing how certain interactions work within the Timing Breakdown and encountered a specific situation that needed clarification.

The situation:
Opponent successfully plays a maneuver, resolves effect as per the Timing Breakdown, then player activates Managed by Paul Heyman to remove the maneuver (he has The Paul Heyman Guys in the Ring Area as well).

Since the maneuver is successfully played and resolves to the Ring Area, when the player activates MbPH to remove the maneuver:

a) Can he target the already-resolved maneuver? I understand the effect is being played at the stage where Sustained Damage, etc is being played. Thus, it should be able to target the maneuver if it already resolves to the Ring Area, am I correct?

b) Does the removed maneuver still do damage? The Timing Breakdown doesn't really mention if damage is still dealt if the maneuver is removed from the ring prior to damage calculation, but I believe it still is in the process of resolution thus the player takes damage even though he removed the maneuver from the Ring Area?

Thanks in advance for helping me out!

Managed by Paul Heyman
Pre-match Manager: Heel
When this card is in your Ring area, as a Mid-match Action, you may put this card into your Ringside pile, you must discard 1 card, and then put 1 non-Backlash-deck card in your opponent's Ring area into his Ringside pile.
Universally Unique
F: 0      D: 0

The Paul Heyman Guys     (Brock, Cesaro, CM Punk, Ryback)
Pre-match Event / Mid-match Action
This card is packed as a Pre-match or Mid-match. Cannot be blanked.
Your I'm a Paul Heyman Guy! is -3F and can only be reversed by Unique reversals; when your Paul Heyman's Shoot Promo would be removed from the game, put it on the bottom of your Arsenal instead; and when you successfully play or Activate a card with "Heyman" in the title, you may Promo: 3.
ACE:  When you Promo, you may put this card in your Ringside and then put 1 card not chosen in your hand and up to 1 card not chosen on the bottom of your Arsenal instead.
During your turn when this card is in your Ringside, you may put it into your Backlash and end your turn.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique

Rules Forum / Re: The Manbeast of NXT Qns
« on: April 08, 2018, 09:14:04 PM »
I'm pretty sure what it is saying is that you can't pack printed foreign objects, but for the effects of your SS cards your normal maneuvers are treated as if they are foreign objects. Being treated as foreign objects by certain SS cards doesn't make them actually foreign objects.

Don't think it works that way. When you're building your deck, the maneuvers that are 5-F are not Foreign Objects yet until this card is in your ring area and you get the effect. However, packing rules immediately kick in while you're building your deck so it shouldn't clash.

But, for now, don't worry about the newer Rhyno cards released in v8, the TCO team have discussed a rewording/errata, since the card isn't working as intended, which is to proc Rhyno's ability along with other Rhyno cards (which it is already doing, by the wording) so we players will just have to wait and see how everything goes. A more detailed read-up on the matter on this thread:,17777.0.html

I'm guessing since you're running High Flying Style, you might as well go all-in for the theme.

Add the new HFS support Cruiserweight-Style Action and maybe a Cruiserweight belt or Managed by the Coach to search for a Japanese Arm Drag (it becomes a 0F 4D High Risk) and swing it with a Turn Up The Heat protected by Mean Gene.

IF anything...doubt they'd give him a new superstar for Woken Matt Hardy...maybe a backstage and/or prematch that alters what you can/can't play. I'd be ok with that, Matt already has a decent sized set, as well as a remake AND apart of 3 tag teams

There's also like 80 Chris Jericho' that argument is OBSOLETE!

 I think a promo star would be more than enough. Superstar card that states you can pack select Matt Hardy cards like his maneuver cards + 2 or 3 WOKEN cards. It would be MARVELOUS!

Absolutely, would love to see the Broken Universe in card form.

Senor Benjamin, prepare the battlefield... for ANNIHILATION!

Rules Forum / Re: Another clarification
« on: January 21, 2018, 01:28:56 AM »
Is the card effect of its showtime considered as skipping your opponent turn??

If old school wrestling match effect says turns cannot be skipped does that also imply that if i play philadelphia, my turn wont be skipped?

It's Showtime does not skip the opponent's turn.

#115/383 It's Showtime! (SS)
Pre-match Event
When this card is in your Ring area, if it is the first turn of the game, you may reveal your hand to your opponent before his Draw Segment, overturn 2 cards, and end your opponent's turn.
F: 0      D: 0

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« on: January 21, 2018, 01:16:30 AM »
Regarding #1) I mostly follow your logic there niiiick... However they are both Superstar abilities... so who's to say that Braun's ability overrides Lesnar's ability, any more than Lesnar's ability overrides Braun's?

Niiiick is right here. Effect(s) can be generated by abilities, and Braun's ability specifically mentions effects and not card effects (which don't count abilities), and besides, he DID quote the OmniFAQ for your reference.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: Sid
« on: January 17, 2018, 09:25:41 PM »
The OCD within me has prevented me from printing out a Sid deck because it bothers me so much that they’re off.   :P

Same here!

Welcome (back) to Raw Deal / Re: Backlash Reversals
« on: January 15, 2018, 09:05:42 AM »
In some BASH decks, I personally like running a copy of When You Thought... and Introduce Your Brain To Your Mouth.

They might be very niche, but VERY useful to counter a certain deck esp since some VC stars may not have a lot of variety in backlash reversals.

Rules Forum / Allegiance Clarification
« on: January 08, 2018, 06:27:17 AM »
Two quick questions:
A) Is it legal to pack more than 1 allegiance in my backlash deck?
B) If I'm packing I Know Who Pays My Salary! and Stand Up For WWE! as well as I'm Always On the Winning Side - MY Side! and I Stand Alone, do the arsenal cards simply become unplayable because the requirement isn't met depending on what Allegiance is out, correct? (e.g. I have I Know Who Pays My Salary! out, I can only play Stand Up For WWE! even though I Stand Alone is in my deck)

I Know Who Pays My Salary!
Pre-match Allegiance: WWE
When packing this card, you cannot pack nWo, ECW, or WCW cards.
When your opponent is an nWo, WCW or ECW Superstar, your Starting Hand Size and Superstar Value are +2.
ACE: When he is not Vince McMahon, once during each of your turns you may discard 2 cards and then you are considered to have lower Fortitiude when you play your next non-Antic card this turn.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     RMS logo

Stand Up For WWE!
Action / Reversal: Special
Requirement: Allegiance: WWE
As an action, cannot be reversed when you have lower Fortitude; shuffle up to 4 cards from your Ringside into your Arsenal and draw 1 card.
As a reversal, reverse any ECW, nWo, or WCW card.
F: 8     D: 0     Unique

I'm Always On the Winning Side - MY Side!
Pre-match Allegiance: None
When packing this card, you cannot pack Factions, Guest Ring Announcers, or non-Superstar Specific cards that are ECW, WCW, or nWo.
Your Starting Hand Size is +1, your Pre-match and Mid-match Capacity are +1, and at the end of Pre-match phase, put up to 1 card from your Ringside on the bottom of your Arsenal.
ACE: Once during each of your turns, you may randomly remove 1 card in your Ringside from the game and then randomly discard 2 cards, search your Arsenal for 1 non-unique maneuver card, reveal it, put it into your hand, and shuffle.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     RMS logo

I Stand Alone
Reversal: Special
Requirement: Allegiance: None
Cannot be packed by Rick Rude.
When played from hand, reverse any non-unique maneuver; when played by Batista, draw 1 card.
When this card is in your Ring, discard 1 less card to Activate your Allegiance card.
F: 12     D: 0     Unique

Deck Reviews - Virtual / Re: Drew Mcintyre (Heel/Raw/FF)
« on: January 07, 2018, 07:09:19 AM »
Cool! I just built McIntyre last night. It’s interetibg that our mid-match is card for card identical (except I pack Ready to Fight over DLB) but our prematch is completely different (except Scotsman and Vince Interferes).

Mania x3 seems a bit overload. I’d probably drop 2 of them. 3x DTTAH also seems like an interesting choice. So many of the ACEs w rare today cannot be responded to, Ive certainly dropped to 1 in most decks.

Let me know how it works out. I hope to playtest tonight and can let you know what works for me.

I'm guessing the DTTAH x3 is a tech choice, as a lot of powerful ACEs that can be reversed by it are still played within our playgroup. It still helps to hit Sustained that wants to lower dmg from reversals, for example, and is still a strong choice against superstar specific cards that give you ACEs that may not receive protection (like Sami + 3x FLAU).

I would suggest adding a 'Evening Up The Odds' since you are definitely lowering your handsize every turn with the ability, so drawing an additional 2 later on for your turn is a godsend, and if the opponent didn't do much, you can still pull a -6F from cycling your hand.

General Discussion: Raw Deal / Re: Live streaming Raw Deal
« on: January 06, 2018, 08:57:23 PM »
We’re getting ready to stream some love games over at for your viewing pleasure.
Join in on the  chat and race others to correct us on our rulings.

Having some trouble viewing this on youtube!

Deck Reviews - Virtual / Re: cryme tyme
« on: January 04, 2018, 09:35:21 AM »
Personally, I would change Marquee to a Dare to Take a Challenge. Most decks won't retaliate after the first and you just get more heat fuel off it + it's getting hot in here.

And I love the deck idea, might have to steal it to try it out! Looks like a real fun deck to try!

Deck Reviews - Virtual / Re: Please Critique Braun
« on: January 01, 2018, 05:21:14 PM »
I'll look at your reversal base first.

The Abominable Strowman
The New Face of Destruction
Step Aside x3
Hold the Phone x3
No Sell x3
Escape Move x3
Clumsy x3
Overshot your Mark x3
Break the Hold
Get the F Out x3
Revolution of the Mind x3

-3 Clumsy Opponent
+1 Don't be a Douchebag!
+1 Carlito Says "That's not Cool!"
+1 Raw Deal Revolution

-2 Step Aside
+1 Break the Hold
+1 Lift a Boot (non-tb)
+1 Hold the Phone!

-2 Escape Move
+2 It's Great to be back here in....
+2 Oversell Maneuver

-3 Roll out of the Way
+1 You missed your chance
+2 Elbow to the Face

Rationale: It's just better to be able to hit opponents that want to run Clutch + Apply/German Suplexes, etc. Clumsy Opponent has the 4D- requirement that is much too restrictive. This is just a general thing I'd change in the deck off first look at it because Douchebag/Carlito also helps against decks that use Chain and against overturn as well. Elbows can hit a wider range of maneuvers (like low dmg high risks) and roll is just pretty weak in general.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: Merry Christmas! VHS3: Payback
« on: December 26, 2017, 08:42:43 AM »
It's definitely a bit greedy for me to ask... and well, you guys deserve a break during the holiday season. But is there an ETA of sorts for the error cards for V8B? I think something was mentioned back in the Rhyno question thread on the rules forum a while back.

We'll be looking at some updates in the near future, cleaning up a few details we missed.  Sometimes we're so focused on what the card does that we don't remember to check what the words actually say, sorry about that.

For now, please just report whatever you find, we'll put out some fixes somewhere in the next couple weeks.  Maybe if I get busy, we'll just release them with VHS3.


General Discussion: Raw Deal / Re: Where does one start?
« on: December 25, 2017, 07:36:21 PM »
I'll share my own deckbuilding suites that I use for my own decks:

Neutral Reversals
Usually a suite of:
1-2x each of Step Aside/Escape Move/Break the Hold/Lift a Boot
3x A Revolution of the Mind
1-2x Elbow to the Face
2-3x Get the F Out
1x Overshot your Mark
1-2x No Chance in Hell TB
VC staples like Don't be a Douchebag/Carlito Says/You missed your chance

Heel Reversal Staples
3x Manager Interferes
1x Outside Interference (midmatch)
1x Unscrupulous SOB (midmatch)

Face Reversal Staples
3x Once is Enough
2x Sloppy... Very Sloppy

BASH Staples
3x The Return BASH for Scotty’s W-O-R-M

Mid-match Reversals
Restricted Use in this Area
You're as graceful as a cow on ice
This is gonna turn into an old school brawl! (VC)

Those should cover a good amount of decks to try (if you're only intending to have one active playable deck to swap around), allowing for maximum flexibility in deck playstyles with reversal suites that cover all, if not most, decks. I would consider a starting 0F maneuver suite of 7-10 maneuvers, as most decks have a way to get past the early game nowadays, esp in VC.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: Merry Christmas! VHS3: Payback
« on: December 25, 2017, 09:01:15 AM »
Love the new cards and once again, TCO gave us more than simply the set, we still got some nice alt art face cards to go along with them! Merry Christmas!!

Not really, for the printed sets.  Mike Foley never liked him, heh.

I remember he was slated for Rev. 2 as one of the Extremists, and he said 'Is this really the best we can do?'  :D  I believe he became Terry Funk instead.

(We sketched out something a while back for Hardcore Holly, but we haven't run low enough of guys to get around to him, and now there's SO much new talent, I doubt he'll make it.)


Kinda hope we get Hardcore Holly and Crash Holly someday though, seems like they're the new Val Venis.

1.)  How viable is this superstar?
Played him a lot in Classic and a bit in VC and he still rocks the same scary build. Very viable.

2.)  Is there a Superstar Specific Card that you'd like to spotlight?
Leader of the Peepulation
Starting Hand Size: 6     Superstar Value: 4
Superstar Ability: Once during each of your turns you may put 1 D:0 card from your opponent's Ring area into his Ringside pile. If you do, put 1 non-unique card from your Ring area into your Ringside pile.
You may pack any cards with the Christian logo, but you do not count as that Superstar.

Obviously, his strength lies in this absurd ability that does not look intimidating on the surface. But once it starts firing off infinite Backfires, you know to fear and respect it.

3.)  How have you built said superstar?  How did it work out?
Well, like the others have pointed out here, Backfire is his bread and butter, even in VC's environment. So heat is the way to go.

4.)  How well does the Superstar fare in whichever format you built them in be it VC/VAA/NXT/VR/Non-Virtual
VC and Classic is where he goes with similar builds and saw a lot of success. He's still scary if your deck doesn't play well with his. Burns hard and makes you cry with Backfires.

5.)  Final Thoughts on this Superstar?
Although his playstyle did not evolve much (which I hope VC will help him to in the future!), he's still strong with a build that doesn't need much F to start threatening the opponent. He's easy to build and learn to play but not easy to master as his playstyle is quite mechanic-centric (you need to track cards to remove, etc).


6.) Since this Superstar is a Legacy one (in that he was in the game before Virtual) can you elaborate a little on how Virtual has changed this Superstar?
Nothing much, which is kind of a disappointment, hoping to see some extra different playstyles we can get with him in the future from backstage cards, etc that lets him break the mold a little more than he is doing now.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: holiday set 2017
« on: December 22, 2017, 05:32:45 AM »
VHS1: 5
Charlotte Flair
Sasha Banks
Becky Lynch
Nikki Bella TB
Brie Bella TB

VHS2: 6
Kevin Owens
Big E
Xavier Woods
The New Day

VHS3: 6 revealed so far
AJ Styles
The Best Wrestler in the World
Braun Strowman
Gallows & Anderson

Sounds pretty accurate, but hey, would be cool if we got 1 or 2 more! No matter though, the set is still pretty exciting!

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: holiday set 2017
« on: December 19, 2017, 08:06:19 PM »
So far the set's been pretty hype! And since we're getting some corrected cards from V8B as well, I guess the holiday season's gonna be filled with quite a bit of RD.

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