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Messages - dilbert505

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1
Rules Forum / Re: Snap DDT.
« on: January 12, 2019, 12:52:08 AM »
Timing Breakdown time.

Quote
1 Play the card.  Until the card is moved to another area, it is not in any area while resolving the Timing Breakdown.
1a Reveal the card to all players and choose a target or targets for the card (if any.)

2a Determine the Fortitude cost for the card, including modifiers, the effects of the card’s player first, then his opponent’s effects. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.) You may not play a card if you cannot meet the Fortitude cost, unless a ‘when played’ effect can lower the Fortitude cost; this effect can only be as a function of playing the card.
2b Determine that you can meet all of the 'must' requirements listed on the card.
2c Check that a Follow-up condition is met (if required), including any ‘ignore the text’ effects.
2d If any of these steps can not be satisfied, the sequence ends immediately and the card remains where it started. (It does not count as having been played.)
2e Apply any ‘when played’ effects from the card’s controller.
2f Apply any ‘when played’ effects from the opponent.

3a Apply damage modifiers from sources that you control. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.)
3b Apply reversal modifiers of the card played.(self-plunging or maneuvers that bar reversals (Panics, Atomic Lariat, Shoots, etc.))

4 Apply damage modifiers from sources your targeted opponent controls. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.)

5a Targeted opponent may play a reversal card or generate a reversal effect. (If he plays a reversal card, that card will follow its own Timing Breakdown sequence.)
5b If you played a card with Multi, targeted opponent may play or generate a second reversal after the first reversal has completed all effects and damage.
5c If the card is completely reversed, the Timing Breakdown ends.

Relevant parts in bold. The "when played" effect triggers in step 2e, long before Oversell can be played in step 5a. The only thing I am aware of that can stop the when played effect on Snap DDT is an outside effect modifying the Fortitude cost of the card to a number greater than your effective Fortitude, which would thwart the attempt to play the card entirely.

2
Braun Strowman ( 5 )
2 Surprise Entrants ( 8 )
Team Player ( 2 )

3
I prefer more people getting the chance to enter. There are already people every year who don't get in with the current "pick 1-3" rule. If you let 4 people pick 4 cruisers each, then those 4 people already account for over half the possible entries.

4
Deck Reviews - Virtual / Re: American Alpha
« on: December 30, 2018, 12:30:56 PM »
I don’t see the words “Key Lock x3” anywhere. I’d recommend correcting that; they’re amazing for any Tag Team, but in AA, as a Counter, they’re F:2, D:13, Multi, Chain, and Vickie protected.

5
Rules Forum / Re: Shinsuke questions
« on: December 29, 2018, 09:46:50 PM »
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ck is right, but to help clarify a bit more:

SHINSUKE NAKAMURA
Starting Hand Size: 8     Superstar Value: 4
NXT Superstar Ability: Once during each of your turns when you play a non-Multi non-RMS maneuver that is a Strike or has 'elbow', 'knee', 'fist' or 'suplex' in the title, you may discard 1 card.  If you do, when that maneuver is unsuccessful, draw up to 1 card; when it is successful, the maneuver applies its modified Damage twice, ignoring Stun and reversal restrictions on the second application; after all damage is applied, end your turn.
You cannot pack Revolution maneuvers.

Quote from: Timing Breakdown
1 Play the card.  Until the card is moved to another area, it is not in any area while resolving the Timing Breakdown.
1a Reveal the card to all players and choose a target or targets for the card (if any.)

2a Determine the Fortitude cost for the card, including modifiers, the effects of the card’s player first, then his opponent’s effects. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.) You may not play a card if you cannot meet the Fortitude cost, unless a ‘when played’ effect can lower the Fortitude cost; this effect can only be as a function of playing the card.
2b Determine that you can meet all of the 'must' requirements listed on the card.
2c Check that a Follow-up condition is met (if required), including any ‘ignore the text’ effects.
2d If any of these steps can not be satisfied, the sequence ends immediately and the card remains where it started. (It does not count as having been played.)
2e Apply any ‘when played’ effects from the card’s controller.
2f Apply any ‘when played’ effects from the opponent.

3a Apply damage modifiers from sources that you control. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.)
3b Apply reversal modifiers of the card played.(self-plunging or maneuvers that bar reversals (Panics, Atomic Lariat, Shoots, etc.))

4 Apply damage modifiers from sources your targeted opponent controls. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.)

5a Targeted opponent may play a reversal card or generate a reversal effect. (If he plays a reversal card, that card will follow its own Timing Breakdown sequence.)
5b If you played a card with Multi, targeted opponent may play or generate a second reversal after the first reversal has completed all effects and damage.
5c If the card is completely reversed, the Timing Breakdown ends.

6 The card is now 'Successfully Played' and enters the Ring Area.  If this card is reversing the card in question (it is not the first reversal to a Multi, it is not Over Sell Maneuver), the affected maneuver is now considered reversed. (Any text on the card and any Traits on the card are considered to be in your Ring Area after this step is complete. This excludes text that would modify or trigger in any of the first six steps.)
6a Some cards are put into the Ringside Pile or other area instead of going to the Ring Area (Iron Will etc.) The Timing Breakdown still continues as normal, these cards never enter the Ring Area.  They will resolve during the text resolution (Step 8 ) at that time, and will still resolve to its destination even if blanked.

7a Effects you control (other than this card's text taking place when played or when successful played) that trigger on a Successfully Played card take place. In the event of more than one effect, you choose which order they occur.
7b Effects your opponent controls that trigger on a Successfully Played card take place. Opponent chooses the order. (This is where cards such as Over Sell Maneuver and Sustained Damage are played.)

8 Apply effects listed on the card, unless these effects take place ‘when played’ or ‘when this card is in’ a specified area.

9a Chance for activated damage modification (Sustained Damage, Los Guerreros)
9b Damage is overturned one card at a time. Appropriate reversals may be overturned.  (This is also the Step where cards are overturned for Raw & Ready, Over Sell Maneuver, and other cards that replace damage with overturning cards.)
9c Effects generated from resolving a maneuver’s damage may be performed by the player of the original card (searching for a Chain card, for example)
9d Effects generated from resolving a maneuver’s damage may be performed by the opponent (Jamie Noble’s superstar ability, activating There’s No Holding Me Back)
9e Any ‘end the turn’ effects are resolved, along with any effects triggered by ending the turn.

Let's take a maneuver through the Timing Breakdown.

Say you play Precision Kick, which as Niiiiiiiick mentioned can only be reversed from hand. Assume you pass through the "can I actually play this" steps in the breakdown; at Step 2E, you would discard a card to trigger Shinsuke's ability. Proceed as normal through the timing breakdown.

If the card is unsuccessful at step 5A you would draw a card and your turn would end (unless they reversed you with an oddball card like Fall Into the Corner that reverses but allows you to continue your turn.)

If the card is successful, you would proceed through the timing breakdown to step 9B. The first time through, the card's damage would be applied as normal; if it is reversed during this first pass through step 9B, you would draw Stun as normal. With a Precision Kick, you'd draw Stun if they overturned a card like Don't Be a Douchebag here; normal reversals wouldn't work, since they would not reverse the card.

After this, regardless of the outcome of the first step 9B, the card goes through step 9B again, this time without Stun or reversal restrictions in play. As soon as the second application of damage triggers, you apply nothing but damage, so if your opponent overturns Step Aside on card #1, the effect ends immediately. Note here that cards like Sustained Damage trigger at Step 9A, so a damage reduction with a card like that would apply to both instances of damage equally.

At the end of the second step 9B, you proceed through steps 9C and 9D, and Shinsuke's ability ends the turn at step 9E.

6
Rules Forum / Re: Rules Question
« on: December 18, 2018, 10:43:53 AM »
I highly recommend checking the glossary, which you can find in the Virtual FAQ thread.

Slot
-A Pre-match or Mid-match slot is one unit of Capacity. Cards that do not take up a Pre-match slot or Mid-match slot do not spend any Capacity when they are in your Ring.
-A player may play a Pre-match or Mid-match card that does not take up a slot even if all of his normal Pre-match or Mid-match slots are filled.
-Making a card not take up a slot is a modification to that card and will be blocked by the Restricted Modification Symbol.

7
Deck Reviews - Classic / Re: Goldberg, first draft.
« on: December 11, 2018, 10:00:12 PM »
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Thought maybe I missed something through the head cold, but it seems to me the deck checks out.

8
Virtual Raw Deal / Re: 30 Days of Raw Deal Christmas
« on: December 11, 2018, 10:24:44 AM »
"Look everybody, it's Tyler!"

"Look everybody, it's complicated!"  :P

Tyler's got a lot of tricks, and he seems really potent, but I can't help but feel that I'd need to print out a cheat sheet of all the things that happen when cards are face up, and all the things that happen when they're face down, so I don't miss any effects by forgetting to read a given card.

9
Fantasy Cards / Re: The Blue Meanie
« on: December 10, 2018, 07:28:21 PM »
His finisher was the Meaniesault, but that was already printed for bWo, and grandfathered into the build with the "You may pack" clause. Beyond that, I don't know what other moves he would use.

10
Gaming Discussion (Everything Else) / Re: Smash Ultimate
« on: December 09, 2018, 09:49:13 AM »
Now that Joker's in the game, my entire wish list is Mike Jones from Startropics.

Geno would be cool, too, and for an Enix representative, I think I'd probably go with the Slime, since that's common to all DW games.

11
Whoops. I just noticed I never put “NXT” next to “SSA”. Aleister is intended to be an NXT superstar.

12
Virtual Raw Deal / Re: 30 Days of Raw Deal Christmas
« on: November 29, 2018, 12:04:43 PM »
Tim, he's referring to the card text, not the card title. With rare exceptions, usually on very early cards, non-Revo Backlash cards have white card text, unless the bottom half of the card is a maneuver (which basically only occurs on Quick BASHing and mono-maneuvers.)

13
World Champion Athleticism cannot change your ability until it is revealed, and deck legality is locked in prior to any cards being revealed. Unless, for whatever reason, you play a card that causes a deck check when it is played (such as According to Linda and the Board of Executives), you will not be disqualified for packing It's True! It's True!

14
Just needed a clarification on certain cards regarding the Chain trait as well.

1. Scenario A: Player A plays a printed Chain card after his previously played printed Chain card, would player B's Carlito Says "That's Not Cool!" work?

Carlito Says "That’s Not Cool!"
Reversal: Special
This card ignores any reversal restrictions from the reversed card.
Reverse any non-unique maneuver with a printed reversal restriction, draw 2 cards, and your opponent discards 2 random cards.
When overturned, this card is -5F and can also reverse any card with Momentum or any non-damage card effect.
F: 5     D: 0     Unique

Carlito is an interesting situation with Chain, because it looks for two different things. Chain (presuming it is printed on the card) is a printed reversal restriction, so as the bold part indicates, it is valid to play Carlito to a Chain card. However, the reversal restriction is from the trait, not from the card, which is what the italicized part of the card looks for, so you may not ignore the two card discard. If you discard two cards, you may play Carlito against a Quick Snap Body Slam or the like.

Quote
2. Scenario B: Same as above, but can player B play This Is Going To Be an Old School Brawl! to the same

This Is Going To Be an Old School Brawl!
Mid-match Reversal: Special
Can only be played when your opponent plays a maneuver with a reversal restriction from his card that is not his first maneuver with a reversal restriction from his card this turn. Blank that maneuver's text and damage, he discards 2 random cards, and end his turn.
When this card is in your Ring and he plays a non-Superstar-specific maneuver with a reversal restriction from his card that is not his first maneuver this turn with a reversal restriction from his card, he overturns 2 cards.
F: 0     D: 2     Unique     RMS logo

This card is looking for reversal restrictions from a card, not "from your opponent," so OSB is not a valid play against a Chain card, unless that card also has a reversal restriction from one of his cards, and it was not the first maneuver with such a restriction. (so, frex, if your opponent first played Body Lock with Drawing a Blank out, and then played Atomic Bear Hug, it would be valid to throw OSB to the Bear Hug, since both would have reversal restrictions from his card, over and above the Chain trait.)

Quote
Lastly, I was also hoping for a clarification on Chain trait given by other cards, and whether the reversals in both Scenario A and B works if it's say, granted by The Legend Lives On

The Legend Lives On
Reversal: Special
Reverse any Chain, Heat, Throwback, Volley, or Restricted Modification Symbol card and end your opponent's turn. Discard your hand.
When this card is in your Ring area, during your turn your Maneuver cards in your Ringside pile and played from your Ringside pile are Heat cards, and your Maneuver cards played from your hand are Chain cards.
F: 0     D: 2     Unique     Errata
ARM

The Chain trait being granted by another card does impact Carlito, because that only reverses cards with a printed reversal restriction. Unless the card that gained the Chain trait already had a printed reversal restriction, Carlito would not be a valid play.

It does not impact Old School Brawl, because the Chain trait by itself does not count as a reversal restriction from a card; the restriction always and only comes from the trait, whether the trait was printed or applied from another source.

15
Rules Forum / Re: "From a card"
« on: October 30, 2018, 10:43:26 PM »

But Dbag CANT ignore the discard 2 for chain because that is coming from the trait, not the card. Just as the omniFAQ states for Heat, it's a trait, not card effect so it gets around Rattlesnake

And that is why I’m asking. In previous rulings, it was previously ruled that you can use Don’t Be A Douchebag! to reverse Chain cards because of the trait’s effect on the maneuver affected. Now, it seems to be ruled differently again? Can we get a consensus on what Douchebag can or cannot do, and how traits will interact with the reversal restriction ruling?

You're confusing two different parts of the card.

Don't be a Douchebag!
Action / Reversal: Special
As an action, cannot be reversed when you have lower Fortitude; shuffle up to 2 cards from your Ringside into your Arsenal.
As a reversal, ignore any reversal restriction from a card, reverse any non-Unique maneuver that is Revolution or has a reversal restriction from your opponent; when overturned, can also reverse any non-damage card effect (even during the Pre-Match phase), and put this card in to your Ring.
Choose one: draw 1 card or he discards 1 card.
F: 0     D: 2     Unique     Permanent

Douchebag may only ignore reversal restrictions from a card, not from a trait (that would be the part in bold above.) As a result, you still have to discard 2 cards to satisfy the Chain trait before throwing Douchebag as a reversal to a Chain card. However, the Chain trait is still a reversal restriction from an opponent, so Douchebag is still a valid reversal, as the underlined part indicates.

16
Virtual Raw Deal / Re: RMS vs RMS
« on: October 15, 2018, 11:47:10 AM »
The only thing in the game that negated RMS was paper's original ability which is no longer usable in virtual land

OK, fair point, that too. As long as a card has RMS, though, it is immune to the effects of any card but itself.

17
Virtual Raw Deal / Re: RMS vs RMS
« on: October 15, 2018, 09:15:57 AM »
No. The only card that can impact any RMS card is that card itself.

18
Virtual Raw Deal / Re: RMS vs RMS
« on: October 15, 2018, 07:08:26 AM »
What happens when RMS meets RMS like Feminine Wiles wants to blank a backstage card that is also RMS?

Ignoring an effect (like the one on Feminine Wiles) is not a modification. In this case, Feminine Wiles being RMS does not matter; it's trying to apply an effect to an RMS card, and RMS says no. The other card would remain, unblanked. (IOW, don't name an RMS card with Feminine Wiles unless you just want to fizzle the effect.)

If, somehow, you attempted to use the effect of Feminine Wiles on a card that had RMS and the text "If an effect tries to blank this card, blank that card" (Note that no such card exists), both effects would be ignored and nothing would happen.

19
Virtual Raw Deal / Re: No more shenanigans
« on: October 07, 2018, 01:00:01 PM »
Ok what about in Twisted Smile when it says your opponent may discard 4 cards and if not then I draw up to 3 cards. Can my opponent discard 2 cards if that's all he has and prevent me from drawing 3 cards?

No.

Twisted Smile
-The opponent must discard exactly 4 cards.  He cannot discard less, even if he has less than 4 cards in his hand.
-This card may be reversed by cards such as Don’t Hate da Playa, Hate da Game! and Faceplant.

This is not a "do as much as you can" scenario, as it would be if you were forcing him to discard cards without him having a choice. In this instance, the opponent has a choice: he may do X, or he may allow you to do Y. If he cannot do X, he must allow you to do Y.

20
Deck Reviews - Virtual / Re: Stacy Norris - Heel / Raw / Cheater
« on: October 04, 2018, 08:36:33 PM »
If I remember Stacy correctly she can only pack one enforcer card. Pretty sure that didn’t change.

Not quite.

Stacy Keibler
Starting Hand Size: 0+     Superstar Value: 3+
Diva Superstar Ability: You may pack Enforcers in your Backstage area. Reveal 1 Enforcer card and choose 1 Enforcer. Your Arsenal may only contain 50 cards. Your cards titled Diversion are Set-up cards and -9F. Ignore the "The maximum number of Pre-match cards you may have in your Ring area is reduced by 1" text on your card titled Managed by Stacy Keibler. Your opponent cannot play any card with the word "Keibler" in the title.
DO, SS3


Now She's Dancing With the Stars
Pre-match Event
Cannot be packed by The Hurri-Friends.
When packing this card, your Enforcers do not have brands, and your Too Hot for TV cards are not Fan Favorite.
Ignore the 'Set-up' text on your Cartwheel cards.
You may put Superior Leg Work from your Backlash into your Ring and reveal 1 additional Enforcer.
ACE: During your turn when this card is in your Ring, you may remove this card from the game to shuffle 10 cards from your Ringside into your Arsenal.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique
V1

As long as she has effects that let her reveal additional Enforcers, she may do so. She still has to find ways to switch enforcers, but she may pack as many as she pleases, presuming they aren't superstar-specific for someone else or otherwise blocked (the nWo Enforcer if she's packing the WWE Allegiance, frex.)

21
Rules Forum / Re: <R> Powerful Resistance
« on: September 18, 2018, 10:36:45 AM »
If it doesn't say "reverse," it doesn't reverse, but it is still a response to the played card. As you only get one response to a played card (usually), if that response is an effect that doesn't reverse, the card is successful.

(It's worth bearing in mind that Revolution card templating differs from Classic card templating, in that Revo cards try to cut extraneous words wherever possible, to a greater degree than Classic cards. The absence of specific terminology you might have otherwise seen on a Classic card doesn't necessarily mean the card works differently; it just means that the card was worded differently to save space.)

22
General Discussion: Raw Deal / Re: Is there a list of formats?
« on: September 09, 2018, 09:57:18 AM »
Dilbert, this is really well written. Would you mind if I posted this on the RawDealSG facebook page as a screenshot? It gives players a good overview of the available formats for them to choose from. Virtual seems like the most difficult to explain because most players (including myself), thought that virtual really just meant cards that are digital, instead of something that can be printed.

Feel free! I've edited the post to highlight the names of the formats; when I got back to look at it again, I realized it would be helpful to have the names pop out a bit.

Excellent! Thank you very much!

Is NXT used a lot? It seems like a headache to construct with all the restrictions.

NXT isn't played to the same extent as Virtual Classic or Virtual Revolution (the two most popular formats, by a lot), but IMO, it should be. NXT is my favorite format, hands down, because the limitations on Pre-match let you get playing much faster, and the banned list really just reflects the unofficial banned list on the Shenanigans cards. (plus a very select few cards that are abusive in a limited pre-match format, like San Diego, California.) It plays like a faster version of Virtual Classic, and is pretty well balanced, on the whole. I just wish it got more play in my local area.

Virtual Classic is the predominant format, though, and since it's close enough to NXT format, I don't mind so much.  :D

23
General Discussion: Raw Deal / Re: Is there a list of formats?
« on: September 09, 2018, 08:06:42 AM »
In brief: (6 of these are simple, two are less so)

Classic - Any card printed by Comic Images without the Revolution logo. You may pack 10 Pre-Match cards and 10 Mid-Match cards in your Backlash deck, and you have 5 slots to play each type during the game. (This can be modified by cards or abilities.) Pre-Match stages are Venue, Feud, Stipulation, Manager, then everything else. Hand draw happens after Pre-Match cards are played, but before they are resolved.

Virtual Classic - Any card, either printed by Comic Images or created by the RDPC, without the Revolution logo. You may pack 12 Pre-Match cards and 12 Mid-Match cards in your Backlash deck, and you have 6 slots to play each type during the game. (This can be modified by cards or abilities.) The additional capacity is due to the introduction of an additional Pre-Match card type, the Allegiance, which is played before the Venue.


Revolution - Any card printed by Comic Images with the Revolution logo.
Virtual Revolution - Any card, either printed by Comic Images or created by the RDPC, with the Revolution logo. For both of these formats, you may pack 6 Pre-Match and 6 Mid-Match cards, and have 3 play slots available. For both of these formats, hand draw happens before any Pre-Match cards are played.


All-Axxess - Any card printed by Comic Images. Build/pack/play rules are the same as Classic.
Virtual All-Axxess - Any card, either printed by Comic Images or created by the RDPC. Build/pack/play rules are the same as Virtual Classic.

NXT - This is a modified version of Virtual Classic. There is a specific card, the "NXT Rules" card, that includes a Banned List of cards that may not be packed, a list of cards that have Errata specifically for the format (these errata cards are all available on this site, and all say "NXT Format" on them; they are only to be used in that format), and a list of Backstage cards that may be packed; all other Backstage cards that are not Superstar-specific are banned. For this format, you may pack 8 Pre-Match and 8 Mid-Match cards, and have 4 play slots available for each.

Tornado tag (unofficial format) - http://teamcanadaonline.net///index.php/topic,2168.0.html - This one I can't summarize neatly enough, so I'm just pasting the link to the rules document here. The super short version is that it's a Classic format where you pack Superstar-specific cards for two superstars in a single deck; either superstar's cards are legal, and both abilities affect the game at the same time. There are banned lists of superstars, and specific combinations that are not permitted because they're abusive, but the rules explain that.

There is one other format, Afterburn, which is a limited version of Classic that only permits a subset of Comic Images-printed Classic cards, but to the best of my knowledge, that isn't played anymore, and I don't know the list of banned cards off the top of my head, so I wouldn't want to mislead you on that.

There's also Tag Team, but the rules are a mess and it requires 4 players in teams of two, building decks in concert. I don't recommend it.

24
Rules Forum / Re: Blanking card moved from ring and then re-played
« on: September 06, 2018, 12:25:45 PM »
1) When a card is blanked by an opponent's effect, only that specific instance of the card is blank, unless the blanking effect is worded "your opponent's cards named "NAME OF CARD" are blank." If he blanks your Kick, your other Kick is perfectly normal.

2) Once the card leaves your Ring, for any reason, to any location, the Rest Hold essentially forgets that it was ever there. It would not be blank when you play it again. (IIRC, the reason for this is that the game has no way of tracking the card through non-public locations; once it ends up back in your Arsenal or Hand, your opponent cannot know that you're telling the truth when you say that's the same copy of the card, so the rules forcibly terminate the effect to ensure that it doesn't have to be tracked at all.)

25
Rules Forum / Re: Lantern
« on: August 22, 2018, 01:03:03 PM »
Timing Breakdown, step 2a.

Quote
2a Determine the Fortitude cost for the card, including modifiers, the effects of the card’s player first, then his opponent’s effects. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.) You may not play a card if you cannot meet the Fortitude cost, unless a ‘when played’ effect can lower the Fortitude cost; this effect can only be as a function of playing the card.

Batista reduces his Spinebuster to 0 first; by the time the Lantern gets a look at it, it sees an F:0 card and does nothing to it.

Same principle applies against Doink.

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