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Messages - BigPimpin

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Hey, welcome back to Raw Deal!  :)

A few comments here:

1) Don't Be THAT Guy is currently an Illegal pack.  If you want to run Don't Be That Guy, you have to choose one of the following four Backstage cards to pack and get rid of the rest:

1   WWE Raw Deal Fifth Anniversary
1   Raw Deal 10th Anniversary
1   Backstage Signature
1   Backstage Autograph Session

2) From your Fortitude curve, I feel like you're going to have trouble getting from move 1 (Quick Snap + Flawless) into you next level moves unless you happen to draw a Technical Slam.  You may want to consider one of the following Backlash cards to aide your efforts in getting Fortitude:
a-A Technical Shoot - fetches Technical cards at 0F
b-Dirty Low Blow TB - basically unstoppable 2F on the board, and when you're done with it you can remove it for Ability.
For cuts in the Backlash deck, you can probably cut When You Thought You Had All The Answers - it is REALLY rare that you get stuck at 0F when the opponent throws TMFs unless you're against Eugene - and one of your two Chain Finishers.

3) In your Pre, I see you have the Smackdown WWF Championship belt - and that's basically all your Smackdown cards that I can see.  Since you're not currently running a feud, you can replace the WWE Championship Belt with Tech In A Bottle, which is more reliable than the belt and will get you the Quick Snap you need. 

4) I would consider the following swaps - these reversals are staples to me in the Virtual game:
-Subtract 2 x Roll Out of the Way for You Missed Your Chance and Carlito Says "That's Not Cool!" - the former covers High Risks and the latter does similar things to Don't Be A Douchebag, but the 2 random discard is worth packing it for.
-Subtract 1 x Ab Rake, 1 x Eye Rake, and 1 x Lift A Boot (TB) for 3 x Get the "F" Out - multi is MUCH more common now, and it also stops non-Trademark Finisher specific moves. 
-Subtract 2 cards of your choice for either 2 x Sidewalk Slam TB or Backhand Slap TB and I've Got One Thing to Say About That - irreversibles are definitely a thing in this edition of Raw Deal.  I definitely think the Sidewalk Slams are better for Bulldog because they're multis in a pinch, but that choice is yours. 

That's just the first observations - if I think of anything more I'll chime back in.

Deck Reviews - Virtual / Re: Must pack for prematch
« on: February 23, 2018, 09:19:45 AM »
The only "must-pack" non-specific Pre to me are:

Making Your Escape
My Game, My Way (could also be mid)

If I'm serious about winning games, both of those are in my deck, because they save your tail end from a lot of random jank.  After that, it's dependent on what you're trying to do with your deck and what superstar you're against. EDIT: you are.

1) Very viable.  You protect 5 different non-RMS maneuvers to throw when you want.  That ability alone is viable, stats be damned.  Then you add the CM Punk (non-Revo) cards?  Yep.
2) My first thought was to say none, as they all work together really REALLY well, but gun to my head:

The Second City Saint
Backstage Card
When you do not have a card with 'Heyman' in the title in your Ring or Ringside, your CM Punk-specific maneuvers and actions are -5F.
When you successfully play a maneuver with 'shoot' in the title or without 'reversed' in the text, you may Promo: 2.
During your opponent’s turn when you discard 2+ cards for his effects, you may then draw 2 cards.
Unique     RMS logo

What does this card do? 
1) Protect from hand destruction (discard 2+, draw 2)
2) Keep the maneuver party going through Promo when you hit most maneuvers.
3) Make Punk's non-reversal cards cheaper - and here's the catch, it has an "off" switch by playing The Paul Heyman Guys.  That's critical for cards like Undermine or Brahma Bull. 

By itself, you can't see all the value it has, but in conjunction with other cards it works very well - for example, you can Promo: 2, drop the non-reversal maneuver into the Ringside, and then use Clobberin' Time to put it back.  It's a very well-oiled machine. 
3) This is all VC - I've built him BASH in playtesting, and he was consistently in every game vs. anything we threw at him.  My most recent incarnation (Lackey tournament) is Face, which has its pluses and minuses. 
4) The BASH deck lost very few times.  I think it was dead-even with Drew McIntyre before Drew was revised (and believe me, as good as Drew is now, he was STUPID in testing).  Starting at 4F is a heck of a boon.  The Face deck is 2-1 in the current Lackey tournament, beating Sheamus and Lionheart while losing to The Natural Disasters (whose Pre-Match shuts off CM Phil 2.0's Superstar ability).  It starts at a lower Fortitude point, so you don't have all your red from the door, but there are certain key cards that make it worth thinking about not being BASH. 
5) CM Phil 2.0 (as I've come to call him) has so many varied ways to hurt you.  He slightly leans Shoot through the Punk support, and he is a good Shoot deck, but at the same time, he's good with any maneuver-based strategy you can put together.  As long as the maneuver isn't RMS, you can promise you'll have it on hand as long as you have at least one card to discard from hand.  If you told me he was the top guy in V8, I wouldn't have much of a counter-argument.  He's got some bad matchups - HHH variants and Natural Disasters 100% negate his ability, and he can struggle with decks that can pick the hand apart one card at a time - but overall he's one of the better superstars in the Virtual game. 

Dilbert did a phenomenal job of talking about Jericho and Hogan.  One thing I will point out that may not be clear on the Hogan pack restrictions - Original Hogan can pack any Unique maneuver he wants.  As an example, Original Hogan can pack Classic Leg Work (Virtual 5 Unique Submission + Grapple) while Throwback Hogan cannot (because his ability says No Submissions and it's part Submission).

Also, regarding tribes, you've got the right idea: Volley would be a tribe, as would Back to Basics (since the moves are all keyed together by that card) and BASH.  They're not usually called tribes, but you being a former Magic player I figured that term would resonate a bit better than "pile of X moves".  :)

Hey guys,

I'm curious to know how one should start when building a deck, or how to analyze strategies for a competitive edge in Raw deal.

I played L5R, MTG, and Netrunner at competitive levels for 10+ years and would consider myself a good player in those games and understand how to go about building decks, but I'm a complete beginner when it comes to Raw deal; only played from the original set to Backlash and just came back to the game recently.

To give an example, when building a Raw deal deck, after deciding my Superstar, I usually just look at good reversals and maneuvers (multi, chain, good abilities) and throw them all together; the same thing with the backlash deck. I'm assuming there's more to this game than just throwing a bunch of "good" cards together and hoping it works.

To follow up on the previous question, what archetype of decks/strategies are there? For example, in magic, there's control, aggro, midrange, and etc.


I think this discussion could be a long one, but to keep it short since I'm at work: basically you can either pick your means of winning first or your superstar first, and you typically can build around that.  Most superstars only do a couple of these strategies well, so choosing a superstar is analogous to picking one of the below strategies (or others I may not be thinking of).  Also, a lot of these combine certain aspects.  For example, Bookerman is a "Tribal War" combined with "Prisoner's Dilemma".

Some deck archetypes:

-Crash Aggro: You throw moves every turn, sometimes two or more per turn, and power through reversal cards.  Examples: Finlay, Road Warriors, Ryback, Rey Jr, anyone who searches for moves every turn.
-Prisoner's Dilemma: Your opponent has to make the tough choice - reverse your card and suffer a penalty, or don't reverse and suffer a different penalty.  Sometimes combined with Crash Aggro.  Examples: Chain, Volley, Goldust, Shelton Benjamin, Bookerman

-OTK: As the title says, you pull off a combo in one turn, usually involving actions or antics, that ends the game.  Less concerned with cards in the opponent's Arsenal, there's usually a specific "win" card they shoot for.  Decks that can continue their turn are particularly good at this, such as Rey Jr.  Examples: Divas: The Next Generation, That's It!, Divas Rule, etc.

-Rope-a-dope: Your strategy is based on reversing your opponent's cards in order to throw a perked maneuver as the first card of your next turn.  Your maneuvers are usually efficient, and therefore you don't need a ton of them, opening up more exotic reversals.  Examples: Braun Strowman, Johnny Nitro, NXT Arrival.
-Tribe War: filling your deck with a specific maneuver type and the perks to help you win.  Each "tribe" has a specific win condition, either pounding someone to oblivion or specific cards that work well with the tribe.  Having a superstar that directly ties into these archetypes is helpful here.  Examples: Your Freak'n Hero, Mexicools, Bookerman
-Denial: You're going to prevent your opponent from playing his key cards, and therefore render his deck useless.  Examples: Bret Hart, Boogeyman, Kill The Beat John Cena
-Soft Lock: You reach a game state in which the opponent cannot do anything to improve his chances of winning - regardless of what he does, he literally cannot win.  Examples: Nidia.

Less Aggressive:
-Burn: Damage is a means to a Fortitude Rating, at which point you'll use "overturn" cards to kill your opponent.  Examples: Backfire, Enter the Stratus-phere, Mae Young, etc.
-Tank: Your superstar does a lot of damage reduction and can take an amazing amount of punishment.  Mostly Superstar-based as most of the better damage reduction mechanics are included on superstar-specifics.  Examples: Bray Wyatt, Sabu,
-Live Forever: Your opponent only has 30 maneuvers in his deck, right?  You'll just reverse and recover every time he throws something.  Once he's out of moves, he's usually a sitting duck.  This style often uses Ringside manipulation and less-dangerous effects (ACE's, for example) to keep alive.  Examples: The Rock, Home Team, Jamie Noble, Snitsky

Rules Forum / Re: Voice of the Voiceless vs. Legendary Management
« on: February 07, 2018, 09:53:59 AM »
Follow-up question, and this comes from the VirtualFAQ entry on The Hitman (emphasis mine)

The Hitman
-The Hitman player may activate this card any number of times during a turn. EXAMPLE: If Bret named The Three Amigos, he could discard 1 card to reverse that card three times, all in the same turn.

Am I correct in saying that the intentional use of the capital A in Voice of the Voiceless was to define it as targeting Activated Card Effects (as formally defined) as opposed to the word "activate" used here to describe using The Hitman's reversal effect?

Rules Forum / Voice of the Voiceless vs. Legendary Management
« on: February 07, 2018, 02:46:48 AM »
The Voice of the Voiceless     (CM Punk logo)
Pre-match Event
Cannot be blanked.  Your CM Punk-specific cards do not take up a Pre-match slot in your Ring.
Your opponent cannot Activate cards or play non-Superstar-specific reversals of D:3+ in response to your maneuvers with 'shoot' in the title.  When you successfully play a maneuver with 'shoot' in the title, draw 1 card.
When you have at least 5 lower Fortitude and your maneuver with 'shoot' in the title is unsuccessfully played, you may put I'm Straight-Edge from your Backlash into your Ring.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent

If I have VotV in my Ring and my opponent has Jimmy Hart/Legendary Management in his Ringside, can he use the effect of Jimmy Hart/Legendary Management from his Ringside in order to reverse a Shoot Headlock?  Or is that considered "activating a card" for VotV?

Managed by “The Mouth of the South” Jimmy Hart
Pre-match Manager
Can only be packed by a Legend Superstar.
When this card is in your Ring area, you may put this card into your Ringside pile to completely reverse any non-unique maneuver and end your opponent’s turn.
When this card is in your Ringside pile, you may remove this card from the game to reverse any non-unique maneuver and end your opponent’s turn.
 (Activated Card Effect Symbol)
Universally Unique
F: 0 D: 0

Lackey Tournaments / Re: TCO Lackey Tournament #12!
« on: February 01, 2018, 01:24:05 PM »
Tuto and I have had problems connecting.  Still hoping to get the game in before Monday.

Rules Forum / Re: Bryan's Airplane Spin Q
« on: January 31, 2018, 10:01:32 AM »
How exactly does this part work:
Bryan's Airplane Spin
Grapple + Submission
After all damage has been applied, discard 1 card and your opponent discards 2 cards.
When your next card played this turn is Maintain Hold, you may ignore the "Can only be played after..." text.
When this card has been removed from the game and you discard cards, put this card and up to 1 other card removed from the game on the bottom of your Arsenal.
F: 8     D: 8     SV: 1     Unique

So if it is removed from game already and I say use Sustained Damage, I can put it on the bottom +1 card? Or do you have to have it removed and discard at the same time?

The first scenario. 

1. Prior to using the ACE on Sustained, it is in the RFG zone. 
2. You discard to Sustained Damage.
3. You can then move Airplane Spin + 1 to the bottom of your Arsenal (assuming nothing else was preventing you from doing so like The Finisher). 

General Chat / Re: [SPOILERS] Royal Rumble Results
« on: January 28, 2018, 10:45:48 PM »
The only thing I really had a problem with was the post-match for the Women's rumble match.  Champs seemed like an afterthought despite standing in the middle of the damn ring with the Royal Rumble winner who will be picking one of them, presumably tomorrow/today.  I mean the women did say they wanted to be equal to the guys, so now they've gotten their taste of "celebrity" booking as we've been dealing with in the men's division for years.  Be careful what you wish for sometimes...

That aside, a fantastic show that didn't feel as long as its 4 hours + 2 hour pre-show.  Two thumbs way up on this.

General Discussion: Raw Deal / Re: Why place face over heel?
« on: January 23, 2018, 03:52:06 PM »
the perk of your opponent losing his hand to mania is a good one, that's why I like it, but I see the appeal of the Survivor Series package too.....

Mega Powers can't pack BASH or heel, Steamboat has a similar restriction (I think)

Steamboat isn't tied to it, he just has cards that perk when he has that alignment.

Same with Sting/Stinger and Sting's Howl (grabs Face/FF/WCW cards).

You can probably count the number of people who are hard-tied to one of the Face/Heel alignment on two hands.  It's a small number when compared to the number of superstars in the game.

Rules Forum / Re: Crank the Walls Down
« on: January 23, 2018, 01:29:40 PM »
The comma in Crank the Walls Down is the big difference.  That separates the two effects.  Neither Bizarre Antics nor Lunatic Flying Tackle has a comma between the two effects, and that means they're really one effect.  In Crank, the comma makes it two distinct effects.

*sigh* to card text:

Throw Into the Corner Turnbuckle - Throwback
Mid-match Action
Your Lock, Stock, and Barrel maneuvers are blank.
During your turn, when this card is in your Backlash, you may put it into your Ring.
During your turn, when this card is in your Ringside, you may discard 2 cards and then put this card into your Backlash.
ACE: Once during each of your turns, you may discard 2 cards and then your next card played this turn is considered to be played after Throw Into the Corner Turnbuckle and after a Set-up card.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique

Restricted Use in This Area
Mid-match Reversal: Special
Can only be played after your opponent plays a card that he has modified by other cards.
Disregard all modifications made to that card by other cards until the end of the turn.
You may still play Reversal cards to that card.

¶ (Restricted Modification Symbol)

So let's see.....he plays big splash tb, it's a card.....yeup....wa s it modifed by another card?? .... yeup, the ACE on throw tb....
do you now disregard all modifcations to that card (like "considered to be played after throw in the corner turnbuckle") .....yeup
no plunge for you!!!!!

Throw into the corner isn't granting the modifier to Big Splash, Big Splash is modifying itself based on the fact that Throw was played, in this case "played" as an ACE. Honestly it feels to me like nothing happens here. If the modifiers were printed on Throw, ACE or no, then the RUITA would be a go.

RUITA is a go.  Here's a similar rules question and the relevant quoted text (the example was Irish Whip + non-TB Running Clothesline):,13024.msg156757.html#msg156757

However, Irish Whip TB does modify Running Clothesline to be considered to come after Irish Whip. Restricted Use will remove that modification and let you reverse the Running Clothesline normally.

If it was Running Clothesline TB, you'd be out of luck, since the TB only gets a Fortitude modification from Irish Whip and once a card passes the legality check, it can be F: 5,000,000 without hurting anything.

There's a follow-up about Throw TB and Big Splash as well, and the answer is the same.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: Strowman versus Lesnar
« on: January 21, 2018, 06:38:44 AM »
I'm not sure if this particular "rule" is written anywhere, but one of the things that I've had discussions with Nate about in the past re: this kind of this is that when there's two opposite effects vying for something a specific denial (aka NO!) overwrites a specific permission (aka YES!). 

An example of this is Rev 3 Factions vs. Lone Warrior TB:
All the R3 factions say "Can be packed by any superstar..."
However the Lone Warrior Face card says (in short) that he cannot pack Factions. The Lone Warrior face card wins this one, as LW can't run the Factions.

Applying that logic to this situation (Brock vs. Braun):
-Brock is saying "I'm changing the damage of your Strikes to 3D"
-Braun is saying "You can't change the damage of my moves"

Since Braun is a "NO!" and Brock is a "YES!" Braun wins the argument and the damage is not modified.

Rules Forum / Re: Angle invitation clarification
« on: January 20, 2018, 07:54:53 AM »

The Kurt Angle Invitational
Pre-match Stipulation
You may put this card into your Ring area from your Backlash deck when you play a Stipulation card.
Once during each of your turns you may allow your opponent to shuffle 1 card from his Ringside pile into his Arsenal and draw 1 card; if you do, you may search your Arsenal for 1 Face card, 1 Heel card, or 1 Chain card, reveal it to him, put into your hand, and shuffle your Arsenal.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent

Is it considered an ace effect to allow your opponent to shuffle while you search?

Yes, this is an ACE.  Allowing the opponent to shuffle/draw per this card is considered the ACE's cost.

Best Friends (Owens/Zayn)
Team Player
Rumble Royalty (Owens)

Rules Forum / Re: Counters
« on: January 15, 2018, 05:11:47 PM »

Counters CAN have a condition in parenthesis which must be met to trigger the Counter. Example:

"Counter" means any reversed card using any reversal.
"Counter (hand or Backlash)" means your reversal has to come from hand or Backlash - spinning on the Arsenal won't work
"Counter (5d+ maneuver)" means the card you reversed had to be a 5D+ maneuver or you cant play the card.

Lackey Tournaments / Re: TCO Lackey Tournament #12!
« on: January 14, 2018, 07:53:34 PM »
My match is tentatively scheduled for around noon tomorrow if anyone would like to spectate.

Welcome (back) to Raw Deal / Re: Backlash Reversals
« on: January 12, 2018, 04:15:09 PM »
My Game, My Way! - Virtual
Restricted Use In This Area - probably the hardest purchase, but there's also a slightly-lesser Throwback in Virtual.  Most must-have BL effect in Raw Deal.
Sustained Damage
This Is Going to Be An Old School Brawl - Virtual
Turning Everything Upside Down - Virtual and/or You're As Graceful As A Cow On Ice
Your Reach Exceeds Your Grasp - Virtual

Some combination of those six go in almost all of my decks - the only exceptions are usually pack restrictions (I like Sandman, but he can't run Turning for example). 

Lackey Tournaments / Re: TCO Lackey Tournament #12!
« on: January 10, 2018, 10:27:19 AM »
Who is Phil 2.0 and Good brothers

Phil 2.0 = The Best Wrestler In The World
Good Bros = Gallows and Anderson

Rules Forum / Re: Rick Rude Question
« on: January 10, 2018, 07:18:53 AM »
The Allegiance Deck is a separate area from all the current areas in a Raw Deal game.  The Allegiance Deck card is not in the Backstage or Ring, and cannot be interacted with by any current effects in the Raw Deal game outside of Rude's specific interactions with this deck. 

It works exactly as it says on the card - you put an Allegiance on top at the start of the game, then once during each of your turns you may return it to the deck and then put an Allegiance card on top of the Allegiance Deck card. 

If by the Dude Love Superstar ability you mean the moving of different face cards with Split Personalities - there are some similarities in that a card goes on top of the Allegiance deck, but that's about all there is to compare.  The Allegiance on top of Rude's Changing Allegiance doesn't blank or otherwise negate Rude's Changing Allegiances.  It's just there, affecting the game as if it was in the Ring. 

EDIT: removed redundant sentence.

Lackey Tournaments / Re: TCO Lackey Tournament #12!
« on: January 04, 2018, 08:11:12 AM »
I know I said I was done......but you just keep pulling me back in. Count me in, life has finally settled down now for me

Lackey Tournaments / Re: TCO Lackey Tournament #12!
« on: January 04, 2018, 07:26:35 AM »
I'll give it a shot.

Lackey Tournaments / Re: TCO Lackey tournament #11
« on: January 02, 2018, 08:05:29 AM »
Mitch, I find myself with some time today - I think I sent you a discord message to that effect.  I'll leave Discord up in case you want to play this morning.

Virtual Raw Deal / Re: Merry Christmas! VHS3: Payback
« on: December 25, 2017, 10:26:48 AM »
Everything looks fantastic, well done to all involved.

Merry Christmas to all, hope you all enjoy the new toys. 

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