Team Canada Online

Raw Deal => Virtual Raw Deal => Topic started by: Eric RD on December 13, 2019, 03:52:37 PM

Title: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 13, 2019, 03:52:37 PM
This holiday we will be releasing a small set of 16 cards with 3 new Superstars with the theme of past, present and future.

Stayed tuned over the next two weeks for spoilers and goodies to celebrate the holiday season.

While our images are still being worked on, here is the first text spoiler for the Superstar of the past.

JIM CORNETTE

Starting Hand Size: 2+     Superstar Value: 1+
WWF/WCW Superstar Ability: Your first action played each turn, and actions in your Arsenal and Ringside are Chain. During your turn, when your opponent has 4- cards in hand and he would discard for the Chain trait, he may overturn that many cards instead.
You may pack 1 Jim Cornette-specific Enforcer in your Backstage Area; when you reveal your Superstar card, reveal 1 Enforcer card and choose 1 Enforcer.

Playtesting is still underway on these upcoming releases, so cards are subject to change.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: MonkeyLord13 on December 13, 2019, 04:11:17 PM
Are we going to get a "Sami Callahan, Joey Ryan, or... Luchasaurus?" Enforcer?

 ;)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 13, 2019, 04:34:54 PM
Are we going to get a "Sami Callahan, Joey Ryan, or... Luchasaurus?" Enforcer?

Nope. Despite many wanting James E Cornette wanting to have some flavour with his current podcast persona and social media attitude, he is going to be a Classic 80s/90s representation.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: CRASHER on December 13, 2019, 05:30:07 PM
Are we going to get a "Sami Callahan, Joey Ryan, or... Luchasaurus?" Enforcer?

 ;)

He actually likes lucha-saurus and the other two ain't wrestlers anyway :)

All of the people on his enforcers are either in the hall of fame, or belong there
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Drywall on December 13, 2019, 08:22:24 PM
YES.

Now I just need Monsoon and I will be a happy panda.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Naitchng on December 13, 2019, 08:28:12 PM
New enforcer? I smell midnight express & i am excited😏
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Drywall on December 14, 2019, 12:13:35 AM
New enforcer? I smell midnight express & i am excited😏

I can see a WCW Enforcer and a WWF Enforcer. I'm not a WCW guy but in the WWF he managed Vader, Yokozuna, Bulldog and Owen.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Naitchng on December 14, 2019, 01:13:40 AM
New enforcer? I smell midnight express & i am excited😏

I can see a WCW Enforcer and a WWF Enforcer. I'm not a WCW guy but in the WWF he managed Vader, Yokozuna, Bulldog and Owen.

Haha i know & probably is along these wwf stars. Haha but still would be awesome is midnight express made it to raw deal cos i dun think the heavenly bodies or big baba rogers(big boss man) will make it to raw deal. Keepin my fingers crossed for midnight, although highly unlikely
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Keith0913832 on December 14, 2019, 04:51:27 AM
Looking forward to the set! New deck building cards sound exciting. Hoping for something meta changing.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Drywall on December 14, 2019, 11:30:06 AM
New enforcer? I smell midnight express & i am excited😏

I can see a WCW Enforcer and a WWF Enforcer. I'm not a WCW guy but in the WWF he managed Vader, Yokozuna, Bulldog and Owen.

Haha i know & probably is along these wwf stars. Haha but still would be awesome is midnight express made it to raw deal cos i dun think the heavenly bodies or big baba rogers(big boss man) will make it to raw deal. Keepin my fingers crossed for midnight, although highly unlikely

I should correct myself: He never managed Yoko, he was simply his "American Spokesperson".
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 15, 2019, 04:34:28 AM
Here is the Jim Cornette Superstar card for your enjoyment purposes.
(https://i.imgur.com/3nQJDu5l.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: maskedllama on December 15, 2019, 04:23:28 PM
Dude!!  Very pumped for this!  always a fan of classic WWF Cornette. 

I wonder if the future guy is Techno Team 2000!!
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 15, 2019, 05:26:44 PM
Here's one treat to end your weekend and it's a big one!

(https://i.imgur.com/5XvOQ5Fl.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Naitchng on December 15, 2019, 06:48:52 PM
Here's one treat to end your weekend and it's a big one!

(https://i.imgur.com/5XvOQ5Fl.jpg)
Woah midnight express, yeah
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: maskedllama on December 16, 2019, 04:54:35 PM
I am very tempted to build him multiple times. That way I can have a Midnight Express and a Yokozuna and Owen Hart tag team deck. I didn't realize how badly I wanted those until they suddenly became an option.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 16, 2019, 05:03:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kCbNl9hl.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Keith0913832 on December 16, 2019, 06:17:43 PM
There's 2 'Discard' on the pre match.

I like TNF 1.0 though 😏
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 16, 2019, 06:20:07 PM
There's 2 'Discard' on the pre match.

I like TNF 1.0 though 😏

Was pointed out on the Facebook page and it's fixed on my end.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 17, 2019, 04:19:51 AM
There is one more card for Jim Cornette that we'll wait to reveal later on. Today here's the second Superstar joining Raw Deal.

(https://i.imgur.com/SNvBJ50l.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Rio D on December 17, 2019, 05:30:19 AM
Was hoping for Carmella...
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: DebuRaito on December 17, 2019, 05:54:50 AM
Then = Jim Cornette
Now = Lacey Evans
Forever = ?

😏😏😏
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 17, 2019, 09:30:10 AM
Then = Jim Cornette
Now = Lacey Evans
Forever = ?

😏😏😏

Original design idea for the set was to represent the ghost of Christmas Past, Present and Future. Taking the approach we are with the title it's more suitable for WWE, but the idea is still there. The third name is an "up and coming" Superstar.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: the-edge666 on December 17, 2019, 11:32:05 AM
So "forever" will be an NXT guy, I guess. Had the hope for Ruby Riott. A set build around the Riott Squad could be badass. But, maybe in the future.  ;)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Scotty on December 17, 2019, 12:05:48 PM
So "forever" will be an NXT guy, I guess. Had the hope for Ruby Riott. A set build around the Riott Squad could be badass. But, maybe in the future.  ;)

Just in time for Liv Morgan to get a makeover...just can't win in Raw Deal lol

I'm a fan of the Then, Now, Forever theme. There's a pretty big divide between wanting older wrestlers (nostalgia) and current guys (despite Raw and SD being terrrrrrrible shows) with both sides showing equal passion and support. This is a way to suit everyone.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 18, 2019, 04:26:42 AM
Lacey Evan's continues this week's card spoilers for the newest set. This along with her ability will have you dusting off some old cards.

(https://i.imgur.com/FyqmNAbl.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: darkdestiny91 on December 18, 2019, 05:57:28 AM
So "forever" will be an NXT guy, I guess. Had the hope for Ruby Riott. A set build around the Riott Squad could be badass. But, maybe in the future.  ;)

Just in time for Liv Morgan to get a makeover...just can't win in Raw Deal lol

I'm a fan of the Then, Now, Forever theme. There's a pretty big divide between wanting older wrestlers (nostalgia) and current guys (despite Raw and SD being terrrrrrrible shows) with both sides showing equal passion and support. This is a way to suit everyone.

Love the theme as well. Forever, hopefully, will be a Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair remake maybe?

The Hulkster or The Dirtiest Player in the Game?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: maskedllama on December 18, 2019, 03:43:26 PM
Thank you for Lacey Evans. Now I'm justified in Saving copies of those old cards. Looking forward to getting a chance to build her
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 19, 2019, 03:42:22 AM
Here's today's card. Tomorrow we will be revealing the last Superstar of the set!

(https://i.imgur.com/VkyiIb2l.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: DebuRaito on December 19, 2019, 06:59:27 AM
How will Act like a Lady interact with cards like, Everybody Wants to Watch Women Wrestle? You are able to do both effects  at 0F eh?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Hogtrail on December 19, 2019, 07:08:12 AM
How will Act like a Lady interact with cards like, Everybody Wants to Watch Women Wrestle? You are able to do both effects  at 0F eh?

Functions like Little She Devil. You play it, and then choose which effect when its successful. It resolves to its destination depending on which option you choose.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: MonkeyLord13 on December 19, 2019, 08:54:29 AM

Love the theme as well. Forever, hopefully, will be a Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair remake maybe?


Come on Jushin Liger! lol
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Keith0913832 on December 19, 2019, 09:54:24 AM
How will Act like a Lady interact with cards like, Everybody Wants to Watch Women Wrestle? You are able to do both effects at 0F eh?

I don't think that is affected because her ability only affects 'Woman' and not 'Women'
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: The Hurricane on December 19, 2019, 09:59:58 AM
Ok having Jim Cornette in the game might get me to play a few games on Lackey.  ;D
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: CRASHER on December 19, 2019, 12:20:47 PM
Ok having Jim Cornette in the game might get me to play a few games on Lackey.  ;D

Hopefully over a double CHEESEBURGER but screw the onions!
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: The Hurricane on December 19, 2019, 04:33:41 PM
Ok having Jim Cornette in the game might get me to play a few games on Lackey.  ;D

Hopefully over a double CHEESEBURGER but screw the onions!

Is there any other way to play? :D
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: DebuRaito on December 19, 2019, 05:48:14 PM
How will Act like a Lady interact with cards like, Everybody Wants to Watch Women Wrestle? You are able to do both effects at 0F eh?

I don't think that is affected because her ability only affects 'Woman' and not 'Women'


Packed by a female superstar...

@Hogtrail, so little she devil mentioned an either/or, but those either/or alternatives are not presented in the male/female specific condition cards (e.g. everybody wants to watch women wrestle), so is this a new ruling passed down or something?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Keith0913832 on December 19, 2019, 06:02:47 PM
How will Act like a Lady interact with cards like, Everybody Wants to Watch Women Wrestle? You are able to do both effects at 0F eh?

I don't think that is affected because her ability only affects 'Woman' and not 'Women'


Packed by a female superstar...


I mean, she doesn't turn that card to have 'Lady' in title so she doesn't get to ignore anything.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: rachelmon on December 19, 2019, 06:30:20 PM
How will Act like a Lady interact with cards like, Everybody Wants to Watch Women Wrestle? You are able to do both effects at 0F eh?

I don't think that is affected because her ability only affects 'Woman' and not 'Women'


Packed by a female superstar...


I mean, she doesn't turn that card to have 'Lady' in title so she doesn't get to ignore anything.

Not in the title but got "Female" in text..
Ability stated Title and Text
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 19, 2019, 06:38:49 PM
How will Act like a Lady interact with cards like, Everybody Wants to Watch Women Wrestle? You are able to do both effects at 0F eh?

I don't think that is affected because her ability only affects 'Woman' and not 'Women'


Packed by a female superstar...


I mean, she doesn't turn that card to have 'Lady' in title so she doesn't get to ignore anything.

Not in the title but got "Female" in text..
Ability stated Title and Text

This will act similar to how Little She Devil resolves. When it's successful you choose which effect you're using and it will resolve to the appropriate area.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: DebuRaito on December 19, 2019, 09:58:08 PM

This will act similar to how Little She Devil resolves. When it's successful you choose which effect you're using and it will resolve to the appropriate area.

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1 D: 0

My concern is that, since intent doesn't have to be declared until it is successfully played, can you play it at 0F but use the first effect instead?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 20, 2019, 04:40:38 AM

This will act similar to how Little She Devil resolves. When it's successful you choose which effect you're using and it will resolve to the appropriate area.

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1 D: 0

My concern is that, since intent doesn't have to be declared until it is successfully played, can you play it at 0F but use the first effect instead?

Great point and that was something I've personally overlooked. We'll have a ruling for that come release for sure.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 20, 2019, 04:46:08 AM
What was originally intended to be "The Ghost of Christmas Future", is now our Forever representation this time around.
Welcome Pete Dunne to Raw Deal.

(https://imgur.com/gWHHaCAl.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: ironteeth on December 20, 2019, 06:23:04 AM
hell yeah, Pete Dunne!!!
Split Finger Lock time???
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: BigPimpin on December 20, 2019, 10:13:29 AM
hell yeah, Pete Dunne!!!
Split Finger Lock time???

To the bitter end.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: maskedllama on December 20, 2019, 12:41:54 PM
Oh. Heck yeah!!!
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Hogtrail on December 20, 2019, 04:28:58 PM
Leave it to Pete Dunne to have an ability based on hand destruction.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 21, 2019, 07:17:04 AM
Pete's going to have you looking around for some older cards this Christmas.

(https://imgur.com/ALod2Nwl.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 22, 2019, 05:38:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/C4gCEcyl.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: maskedllama on December 22, 2019, 07:52:41 AM
I can't wait until I get back to my apt to go digging through the crates for cards for Pete!
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Kingsantino92 on December 22, 2019, 11:50:50 AM
Can Stacy Evans pack both Feminine Wiles and Era of the Superstar?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Kingsantino92 on December 22, 2019, 12:30:06 PM
I'm asking because she's not a diva which allows her to pack Era of the Superstar then her ability allows her to pack cards as if shes a diva which would allow her to pack feminine wiles. I just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: ironteeth on December 22, 2019, 10:25:32 PM
Pete is looking good. And I love that the picture for The Bruiserweight contains the UK belt, which, in my opinion is the best looking belt in WWE, and maybe even all of pro wrestling
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 23, 2019, 04:15:48 AM
This is the last spoiler we'll be sharing before the set releases. Hopefully you'll be able to print and play everything online by the end of the 24th.

(https://i.imgur.com/esmpythl.jpg)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Daeva on December 23, 2019, 09:49:11 AM
Can Stacy Evans pack both Feminine Wiles and Era of the Superstar?

No, and neither can Lacey Evans. The "you can't pack cards as if you were a Diva" text on The Era of the Superstar supersedes Lacey's permission from her Ability. You get one or the other, not both.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: MonkeyLord13 on December 23, 2019, 09:56:41 AM
This is the last spoiler we'll be sharing before the set releases. Hopefully you'll be able to print and play everything online by the end of the 24th.

Study the Tapes (TB)
At the end of the Pre-match phase Promo:4 and remove the cards not chosen from the game.
When this card is in your Ring, your opponent's Superstar Specific non-Trademark Finisher hybrid reversals do no more than 5D.

I'm not clear on what reversals are having their damage limited. Hybrids played as a reversal are only a reversal, not a Trademark Finisher, so we're not talking about cards that are printed as hybrid with both types of TMF and Reversal. That would seem to indicate that we're talking about Superstar Specific cards that are hybrid reversals played against non-Trademark Finisher cards. So, for example, if Chris Jericho played his Springboard Drop Kick against his opponent's Roll out of the Ring, it's capped at 5D.

Is that right?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 23, 2019, 11:18:11 AM
This is the last spoiler we'll be sharing before the set releases. Hopefully you'll be able to print and play everything online by the end of the 24th.

Study the Tapes (TB)
At the end of the Pre-match phase Promo:4 and remove the cards not chosen from the game.
When this card is in your Ring, your opponent's Superstar Specific non-Trademark Finisher hybrid reversals do no more than 5D.

I'm not clear on what reversals are having their damage limited. Hybrids played as a reversal are only a reversal, not a Trademark Finisher, so we're not talking about cards that are printed as hybrid with both types of TMF and Reversal. That would seem to indicate that we're talking about Superstar Specific cards that are hybrid reversals played against non-Trademark Finisher cards. So, for example, if Chris Jericho played his Springboard Drop Kick against his opponent's Roll out of the Ring, it's capped at 5D.

Is that right?

The end result is the same as you described and you're correct that the wording is messy.

The goal with this card is to affect the opponent's printed non-Trademark Finisher hybrid reversal.

If Jericho his a Springboard Dropkick as a reversal its 5D, if he hits a Codebreaker its doing the full damage.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: MonkeyLord13 on December 23, 2019, 11:31:18 AM
Thanks for the clarification. I love that Study the Tapes got a throwback. There was a time when it and Superior Training were in every deck I built.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Scotty on December 23, 2019, 01:38:09 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I love that Study the Tapes got a throwback. There was a time when it and Superior Training were in every deck I built.

I still play Study the Tapes OG quite often. Love that hand knowledge.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 23, 2019, 01:54:36 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I love that Study the Tapes got a throwback. There was a time when it and Superior Training were in every deck I built.

Thanks for bringing it up. It's easy for us to miss some wording when we have an intent in mind. Spoiler season has multiple uses!
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 24, 2019, 06:29:26 AM
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone. Then, Now, Forever is now available to download and enjoy!
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 24, 2019, 07:10:34 AM

This will act similar to how Little She Devil resolves. When it's successful you choose which effect you're using and it will resolve to the appropriate area.

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1 D: 0

My concern is that, since intent doesn't have to be declared until it is successfully played, can you play it at 0F but use the first effect instead?

Since this card, and it's Smackdown variant, both have differing costs, you will have to announce which effect you are intending on using when played. This will be important for some reversals that look for Fortitude costs of a card.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: maskedllama on December 24, 2019, 01:16:56 PM
Merry Christmas and thank you for the gift!!  I look forward to building these new stars when I get k back home.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: CRASHER on December 24, 2019, 01:37:16 PM

This will act similar to how Little She Devil resolves. When it's successful you choose which effect you're using and it will resolve to the appropriate area.

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1 D: 0

My concern is that, since intent doesn't have to be declared until it is successfully played, can you play it at 0F but use the first effect instead?

Since this card, and it's Smackdown variant, both have differing costs, you will have to announce which effect you are intending on using when played. This will be important for some reversals that look for Fortitude costs of a card.

Wait...I'm not so sure about that....when you play little she devil you don't choose the effect until it's successful.... potentiality rule and all
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 24, 2019, 01:47:47 PM

This will act similar to how Little She Devil resolves. When it's successful you choose which effect you're using and it will resolve to the appropriate area.

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1 D: 0

My concern is that, since intent doesn't have to be declared until it is successfully played, can you play it at 0F but use the first effect instead?

Since this card, and it's Smackdown variant, both have differing costs, you will have to announce which effect you are intending on using when played. This will be important for some reversals that look for Fortitude costs of a card.

Wait...I'm not so sure about that....when you play little she devil you don't choose the effect until it's successful.... potentiality rule and all

There's is a different cost for each effect in this case. One is 1F, the other is 0F. Little She Devil is played, then the option to choose is presented after the fact.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: DebuRaito on December 25, 2019, 03:05:51 AM
Since intent is declared, does it wipe out potentiality rule from the other unintended effects?

E.g. choosing first effect of Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle, will it be able to be reversed by cards that cause opponent to discard (don't hate the player)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: dilbert505 on December 25, 2019, 07:11:22 PM
Hey, everyone. I stayed out of this discussion temporarily while I was double checking my interpretation, but I wanted to issue a clarification here. Eric's misinterpreted how the "Watch Women" cards interact with Lacey's ability and Act Like a Lady.

To pull in the relevant card text:


LACEY EVANS
Starting Hand Size: 5     Superstar Value: 1
Superstar Ability: You may pack cards as if you are a Diva, but you do not count as a Diva. Your cards with 'diva', 'woman' or 'female' in the text or title are considered to have 'lady' in the title. During each of your turns, you may overturn 2 cards to put 1 card with 'lady' in the title removed from the game into your hand.

Act Like a Lady
Pre-match Event
Cannot be blanked. Ignore 'male' and 'female' in the text of your non-Multi cards with 'lady' in the title. Your unsuccessfully played cards with 'lady' in title are removed from the game.
ACE: Once during each of your turns, you may put 1 non-Mid-match card with 'lady' in the title from your Ring under your Superstar card and then draw 1 card. Your maneuvers with 'lady' in the title are +1D for every card under your Superstar card.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0

Now, the Watch cards (I'll call them that for simplicity's sake) are made into 'lady' cards by Lacey's ability. At this juncture, Act Like a Lady takes effect, and the words "male" and "female" are ignored.

What you have now is the following:

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle, Lady
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Lady, Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0

Leaving aside the edge case where Lacey's opponent is not a Superstar (i.e. Extremists), all of the criteria on the card are met. The card calculates Fortitude costs in step 2A, and the cost is reduced by 1 (leaving aside, for the moment, any outside effects that might further impact the card.) The fact that the Fortitude reduction appears in the third paragraph of the text box is irrelevant; Fortitude reduction is typically placed first for ease of reading, but that is a convention, not a requirement of the rules.

At this point, when the card is successful, it looks to see if the opponent is a Superstar. This is normally the case, and each effect triggers in turn. So, for Watch Women Wrestle, once the card is successful, Lacey will search for 3 non-unique maneuvers and remove them from the game, the Arsenal is shuffled, Lacey will discard EWWWWW, and the opponent will discard 1 card. For Watch Women Period, Lacey's opponent will discard 3 cards, Lacey will discard EWWWWP, and Lacey will then draw 1 card.

There is no choosing of effects; there is only a check to see if the opponent is a Superstar or not. If they are, all effects will trigger in turn; if they are not, the card does nothing. Little She Devil is not an appropriate precedent, because that card's modular nature is indicated by the word or in its rules text. The Watch cards do not have or listed, nor is there a "choose one" anywhere on the card. You simply do everything.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: MonkeyLord13 on December 26, 2019, 06:53:25 AM
So, for clarification: are Superstars with a modifier (such as GM Superstars, Chairman Superstars, and Tag Team Superstars) considered "Superstars" for cards like EWWWW?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: dilbert505 on December 26, 2019, 07:09:21 AM
Yes. Any deck whose ability is a ____ Superstar Ability is a Superstar. All the ones you mentioned, as well as Diva Superstars, Cruiserweight Superstars, Rookie Superstars, Legend Superstars, Throwback Superstars, and Stable Superstars, would be impacted by this card. Extremists are the primary exception, as their cards are printed with an Extremist Ability instead. The other exceptions I can identify at the moment are Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, who has a Movie Star Ability, and The Sexy Beast, who has a Huge Rock Star Ability. Note that these cards similarly cannot be affected by things like White Wedding, as they do not have a Superstar Ability to switch.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: DebuRaito on December 26, 2019, 07:15:47 AM
Yes. Any deck whose ability is a ____ Superstar Ability is a Superstar. All the ones you mentioned, as well as Diva Superstars, Cruiserweight Superstars, Rookie Superstars, Legend Superstars, Throwback Superstars, and Stable Superstars, would be impacted by this card. Extremists are the primary exception, as their cards are printed with an Extremist Ability instead. The other exceptions I can identify at the moment are Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, who has a Movie Star Ability, and The Sexy Beast, who has a Huge Rock Star Ability. Note that these cards similarly cannot be affected by things like White Wedding, as they do not have a Superstar Ability to switch.

For the same reason, are these extremist, movie star, huge rock star considered superstar of their respective gender for the "watch" cards played by other non-lacey decks (e.g. trish, torrie etc)?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: dilbert505 on December 26, 2019, 07:36:47 AM
Yes. Any deck whose ability is a ____ Superstar Ability is a Superstar. All the ones you mentioned, as well as Diva Superstars, Cruiserweight Superstars, Rookie Superstars, Legend Superstars, Throwback Superstars, and Stable Superstars, would be impacted by this card. Extremists are the primary exception, as their cards are printed with an Extremist Ability instead. The other exceptions I can identify at the moment are Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, who has a Movie Star Ability, and The Sexy Beast, who has a Huge Rock Star Ability. Note that these cards similarly cannot be affected by things like White Wedding, as they do not have a Superstar Ability to switch.

For the same reason, are these extremist, movie star, huge rock star considered superstar of their respective gender for the "watch" cards played by other non-lacey decks (e.g. trish, torrie etc)?

They are considered of that gender, but again, unless their card says ____ Superstar Ability, they are not Superstars. The Sexy Beast is a Male Huge Rock Star; Chris Jericho is a Male Superstar. If Trish Stratus plays a Watch card against The Sexy Beast, the card would do nothing, as he is Male, but not a Superstar. (You may want to do this, if you have a card that can only be played after a successfully played action, for example; in this case, if not reversed, none of the criteria on the card would be met, it would resolve to the Ring, and you would then be free to play your next card.)

(Side note for superstars and gender, from the Omni-FAQ: superstars are considered male if at least one wrestler depicted on the card is male, such as with Right to Censor or the Hart Dynasty. A superstar is considered female if all wrestlers depicted on the card are female, for example Lay-Cool or Gail Kim & Molly Holly.)
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: tutoman on December 26, 2019, 12:56:06 PM
Hey, everyone. I stayed out of this discussion temporarily while I was double checking my interpretation, but I wanted to issue a clarification here. Eric's misinterpreted how the "Watch Women" cards interact with Lacey's ability and Act Like a Lady.

To pull in the relevant card text:


LACEY EVANS
Starting Hand Size: 5     Superstar Value: 1
Superstar Ability: You may pack cards as if you are a Diva, but you do not count as a Diva. Your cards with 'diva', 'woman' or 'female' in the text or title are considered to have 'lady' in the title. During each of your turns, you may overturn 2 cards to put 1 card with 'lady' in the title removed from the game into your hand.

Act Like a Lady
Pre-match Event
Cannot be blanked. Ignore 'male' and 'female' in the text of your non-Multi cards with 'lady' in the title. Your unsuccessfully played cards with 'lady' in title are removed from the game.
ACE: Once during each of your turns, you may put 1 non-Mid-match card with 'lady' in the title from your Ring under your Superstar card and then draw 1 card. Your maneuvers with 'lady' in the title are +1D for every card under your Superstar card.
F: 0     D: 0     Unique     Permanent     

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0

Now, the Watch cards (I'll call them that for simplicity's sake) are made into 'lady' cards by Lacey's ability. At this juncture, Act Like a Lady takes effect, and the words "male" and "female" are ignored.

What you have now is the following:

Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle, Lady
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Lady, Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0

Leaving aside the edge case where Lacey's opponent is not a Superstar (i.e. Extremists), all of the criteria on the card are met. The card calculates Fortitude costs in step 2A, and the cost is reduced by 1 (leaving aside, for the moment, any outside effects that might further impact the card.) The fact that the Fortitude reduction appears in the third paragraph of the text box is irrelevant; Fortitude reduction is typically placed first for ease of reading, but that is a convention, not a requirement of the rules.

At this point, when the card is successful, it looks to see if the opponent is a Superstar. This is normally the case, and each effect triggers in turn. So, for Watch Women Wrestle, once the card is successful, Lacey will search for 3 non-unique maneuvers and remove them from the game, the Arsenal is shuffled, Lacey will discard EWWWWW, and the opponent will discard 1 card. For Watch Women Period, Lacey's opponent will discard 3 cards, Lacey will discard EWWWWP, and Lacey will then draw 1 card.

There is no choosing of effects; there is only a check to see if the opponent is a Superstar or not. If they are, all effects will trigger in turn; if they are not, the card does nothing. Little She Devil is not an appropriate precedent, because that card's modular nature is indicated by the word or in its rules text. The Watch cards do not have or listed, nor is there a "choose one" anywhere on the card. You simply do everything.

I'm sorry if it might sound redundant, but since English isn't my first language, i just want to make sure i'm reading this right.

When i play EWWWW or EWWWP, i get both effects?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: dilbert505 on December 26, 2019, 01:09:12 PM
That's correct. Lacey gets to do everything on the card against anyone who is a Superstar.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: tutoman on December 26, 2019, 04:27:01 PM
This is the last spoiler we'll be sharing before the set releases. Hopefully you'll be able to print and play everything online by the end of the 24th.

(https://i.imgur.com/esmpythl.jpg)

How does this interact with Fin Balor? does he get to put the non-chosen cards under his Superstar card?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: dilbert505 on December 26, 2019, 06:05:45 PM
Yes. Finn’s ability is a replacement effect, and if he wants to, he can put the cards not chosen under his face card instead.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: KD8ESU on December 27, 2019, 09:51:09 AM
That's correct. Lacey gets to do everything on the card against anyone who is a Superstar.

Can I disagree?  Let me explain.


LACEY EVANS
Starting Hand Size: 5     Superstar Value: 1
Superstar Ability: You may pack cards as if you are a Diva, but you do not count as a Diva. Your cards with 'diva', 'woman' or 'female' in the text or title are considered to have 'lady' in the title. During each of your turns, you may overturn 2 cards to put 1 card with 'lady' in the title removed from the game into your hand.


Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0


I don't want to be pedantic (ok, I do; I like to), however, my understanding is that "woman" and "women" are not the same word.
If it was intended to interact that way, an emergency errata may be needed.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: dilbert505 on December 27, 2019, 10:14:55 AM
That's correct. Lacey gets to do everything on the card against anyone who is a Superstar.

Can I disagree?  Let me explain.


LACEY EVANS
Starting Hand Size: 5     Superstar Value: 1
Superstar Ability: You may pack cards as if you are a Diva, but you do not count as a Diva. Your cards with 'diva', 'woman' or 'female' in the text or title are considered to have 'lady' in the title. During each of your turns, you may overturn 2 cards to put 1 card with 'lady' in the title removed from the game into your hand.


Everyone Wants to Watch Women Wrestle
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, search his Arsenal for 3 non-unique Maneuver cards, remove them from the game, and he shuffles his Arsenal.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and your opponent discards 1 card.
Raw logo
F: 1      D: 0

Everyone Wants to Watch Women, Period
Action
Can only be packed by a Female Superstar.
When your opponent is a Male Superstar, he discards 3 cards.
When your opponent is a Female Superstar, this card is -1F, discard this card and draw 1 card.
SmackDown! logo
F: 1      D: 0


I don't want to be pedantic (ok, I do; I like to), however, my understanding is that "woman" and "women" are not the same word.
If it was intended to interact that way, an emergency errata may be needed.

You may disagree, but you're wrong. Or, rather, you're missing something very important.

LACEY EVANS
Starting Hand Size: 5     Superstar Value: 1
Superstar Ability: You may pack cards as if you are a Diva, but you do not count as a Diva. Your cards with 'diva', 'woman' or 'female' in the text or title are considered to have 'lady' in the title. During each of your turns, you may overturn 2 cards to put 1 card with 'lady' in the title removed from the game into your hand.

These cards don't gain 'lady' because of their title; they both have the word 'female' in the text.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: rachelmon on December 28, 2019, 05:20:03 PM
Classic Distraction
Reversal: non-Unique Maneuver
Can only be played by a Tag Team, Stable, when you have an Enforcer revealed, or when you have a WWF Manager in your Ring or Ringside.
F: 20     D: 0     Unique     WWF logo

Just check if this card still can be packed by any superstar.
As I would still be able to overturn it to reverse non-unique maneuver from arsenal.

Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on December 28, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
Classic Distraction
Reversal: non-Unique Maneuver
Can only be played by a Tag Team, Stable, when you have an Enforcer revealed, or when you have a WWF Manager in your Ring or Ringside.
F: 20     D: 0     Unique     WWF logo

Just check if this card still can be packed by any superstar.
As I would still be able to overturn it to reverse non-unique maneuver from arsenal.

You got it.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Naitchng on January 10, 2020, 09:23:37 PM
By the way is louiseville lip permanent? Card print permanent but tco strategy guide is not permanent. Please advice which is correct.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: DebuRaito on January 13, 2020, 08:50:38 PM
By the way is louiseville lip permanent? Card print permanent but tco strategy guide is not permanent. Please advice which is correct.

Would like to get an official confirmation on this too.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on January 14, 2020, 02:44:50 AM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Naitchng on January 14, 2020, 03:40:46 AM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.

Woah den cornette is even lousier den he already is.
Not perm, can flip, can blank & such a big cost to ace when he has no drawing power🤔.
An ability tat contradicts itself for goin chain & nthin to negate oswm tb🤔. Guess going heat stall is probably the only viable way & just concede when yr opponent plays oswm tb👍
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Scotty on January 14, 2020, 05:37:42 AM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.

Woah den cornette is even lousier den he already is.
Not perm, can flip, can blank & such a big cost to ace when he has no drawing power🤔.
An ability tat contradicts itself for goin chain & nthin to negate oswm tb🤔. Guess going heat stall is probably the only viable way & just concede when yr opponent plays oswm tb👍

Or choose Midnight Express and don’t worry about any of that. Options, my friend.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on January 14, 2020, 07:50:20 AM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.

Woah den cornette is even lousier den he already is.
Not perm, can flip, can blank & such a big cost to ace when he has no drawing power🤔.
An ability tat contradicts itself for goin chain & nthin to negate oswm tb🤔. Guess going heat stall is probably the only viable way & just concede when yr opponent plays oswm tb👍

Cornette has been testing by various people playing various ways. There are methods to flip cards back over, unblank it and so on. Lots of decks do poorly against OSWM as well, doesn't mean he is a lousy Superstar.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Naitchng on January 14, 2020, 05:40:12 PM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.

Woah den cornette is even lousier den he already is.
Not perm, can flip, can blank & such a big cost to ace when he has no drawing power🤔.
An ability tat contradicts itself for goin chain & nthin to negate oswm tb🤔. Guess going heat stall is probably the only viable way & just concede when yr opponent plays oswm tb👍

Cornette has been testing by various people playing various ways. There are methods to flip cards back over, unblank it and so on. Lots of decks do poorly against OSWM as well, doesn't mean he is a lousy Superstar.

Lols every thing u said i already knew. I did formed him both aggro & stall, the conclusion is still heat stall is the best without much use of louiseville lips. If u have to count on unblankin, flipping & putting louiseville back into yr ring. Honestly it's really a waste of time & personally the cost is too high for a ss with low drawing power & becos u are going chain, discard 2 every turn for chain action search via chain trait is already keepin yr hand tiny. Sure goin technical with bbd tb/ icbrtr can help, but cage match shuts u down.
Worst case is the contracting ability tat allows opp to overturn two when hand is 4-, which means hand deduction strategy which is bread & butter of all chain decks is not gonna work thus oso meaning yr impt actions tat counts may nv hit the ring.


Ok, u guys probably won't care what i say/feedback anyway, so yup. Btw lacey win requirements is kind of unattainable since by default u nd at least 38 turns. & most stall decks dun even go 38 turns. #howmanytimesdiduseentherevised12roundsbeenactivated?
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Hogtrail on January 14, 2020, 07:34:49 PM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.

Woah den cornette is even lousier den he already is.
Not perm, can flip, can blank & such a big cost to ace when he has no drawing power🤔.
An ability tat contradicts itself for goin chain & nthin to negate oswm tb🤔. Guess going heat stall is probably the only viable way & just concede when yr opponent plays oswm tb👍

Cornette has been testing by various people playing various ways. There are methods to flip cards back over, unblank it and so on. Lots of decks do poorly against OSWM as well, doesn't mean he is a lousy Superstar.

Lols every thing u said i already knew. I did formed him both aggro & stall, the conclusion is still heat stall is the best without much use of louiseville lips. If u have to count on unblankin, flipping & putting louiseville back into yr ring. Honestly it's really a waste of time & personally the cost is too high for a ss with low drawing power & becos u are going chain, discard 2 every turn for chain action search via chain trait is already keepin yr hand tiny. Sure goin technical with bbd tb/ icbrtr can help, but cage match shuts u down.
Worst case is the contracting ability tat allows opp to overturn two when hand is 4-, which means hand deduction strategy which is bread & butter of all chain decks is not gonna work thus oso meaning yr impt actions tat counts may nv hit the ring.


Ok, u guys probably won't care what i say/feedback anyway, so yup. Btw lacey win requirements is kind of unattainable since by default u nd at least 38 turns. & most stall decks dun even go 38 turns. #howmanytimesdiduseentherevised12roundsbeenactivated?

Everyone has draw power with Evening up the Odds. And Corny w/ midnight's could also use Parts unknown, With blank grapples and the high risks from ringside are also blank.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Naitchng on January 14, 2020, 11:23:08 PM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.

Woah den cornette is even lousier den he already is.
Not perm, can flip, can blank & such a big cost to ace when he has no drawing power🤔.
An ability tat contradicts itself for goin chain & nthin to negate oswm tb🤔. Guess going heat stall is probably the only viable way & just concede when yr opponent plays oswm tb👍

Cornette has been testing by various people playing various ways. There are methods to flip cards back over, unblank it and so on. Lots of decks do poorly against OSWM as well, doesn't mean he is a lousy Superstar.

Lols every thing u said i already knew. I did formed him both aggro & stall, the conclusion is still heat stall is the best without much use of louiseville lips. If u have to count on unblankin, flipping & putting louiseville back into yr ring. Honestly it's really a waste of time & personally the cost is too high for a ss with low drawing power & becos u are going chain, discard 2 every turn for chain action search via chain trait is already keepin yr hand tiny. Sure goin technical with bbd tb/ icbrtr can help, but cage match shuts u down.
Worst case is the contracting ability tat allows opp to overturn two when hand is 4-, which means hand deduction strategy which is bread & butter of all chain decks is not gonna work thus oso meaning yr impt actions tat counts may nv hit the ring.


Ok, u guys probably won't care what i say/feedback anyway, so yup. Btw lacey win requirements is kind of unattainable since by default u nd at least 38 turns. & most stall decks dun even go 38 turns. #howmanytimesdiduseentherevised12roundsbeenactivated?

Everyone has draw power with Evening up the Odds. And Corny w/ midnight's could also use Parts unknown, With blank grapples and the high risks from ringside are also blank.

Haha I am runnin evening the odds btw, most matches still lack hands & almost guaranteed loss to mania.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: necrobaron75 on January 21, 2020, 12:20:34 PM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.

Woah den cornette is even lousier den he already is.
Not perm, can flip, can blank & such a big cost to ace when he has no drawing power🤔.
An ability tat contradicts itself for goin chain & nthin to negate oswm tb🤔. Guess going heat stall is probably the only viable way & just concede when yr opponent plays oswm tb👍

Cornette has been testing by various people playing various ways. There are methods to flip cards back over, unblank it and so on. Lots of decks do poorly against OSWM as well, doesn't mean he is a lousy Superstar.

EXACTLY why it needs to be toned down
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: darkdestiny91 on January 28, 2020, 07:28:47 PM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.

Woah den cornette is even lousier den he already is.
Not perm, can flip, can blank & such a big cost to ace when he has no drawing power🤔.
An ability tat contradicts itself for goin chain & nthin to negate oswm tb🤔. Guess going heat stall is probably the only viable way & just concede when yr opponent plays oswm tb👍

Cornette has been testing by various people playing various ways. There are methods to flip cards back over, unblank it and so on. Lots of decks do poorly against OSWM as well, doesn't mean he is a lousy Superstar.

EXACTLY why it needs to be toned down

Agree with necrobaron here. We finally get a blue control deck contender that could be good against OSWM TB but when we point it out, your argument is that "other decks suck against OSWM TB too" without providing specific reasoning for why Corny's cards are broken otherwise in your testing, then maybe OSWM TB isn't the problem here.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: Eric RD on January 30, 2020, 05:01:06 AM
Superstar guide is the correct answer. Image will be updated to reflect this come revisions.

Woah den cornette is even lousier den he already is.
Not perm, can flip, can blank & such a big cost to ace when he has no drawing power🤔.
An ability tat contradicts itself for goin chain & nthin to negate oswm tb🤔. Guess going heat stall is probably the only viable way & just concede when yr opponent plays oswm tb👍

Cornette has been testing by various people playing various ways. There are methods to flip cards back over, unblank it and so on. Lots of decks do poorly against OSWM as well, doesn't mean he is a lousy Superstar.

EXACTLY why it needs to be toned down

Agree with necrobaron here. We finally get a blue control deck contender that could be good against OSWM TB but when we point it out, your argument is that "other decks suck against OSWM TB too" without providing specific reasoning for why Corny's cards are broken otherwise in your testing, then maybe OSWM TB isn't the problem here.

Revisions are still coming in the first part of the year. We know there are some problematic cards that will be getting adjusted.  I don't belueve we need to reveal everything that comes across in playtesting.

If you feel that OSWM isn't the problem then I would love to hear your thoughts as to what it could be.
Title: Re: Virtual Holiday: Then, Now, Forever
Post by: darkdestiny91 on February 08, 2020, 08:30:47 PM

Revisions are still coming in the first part of the year. We know there are some problematic cards that will be getting adjusted.  I don't belueve we need to reveal everything that comes across in playtesting.

If you feel that OSWM isn't the problem then I would love to hear your thoughts as to what it could be.

OSWM TB, imo, is needed to balance out the Aggro > Blue Control > Sponge > Aggro dynamic of decks. As OSWM TB hits both Blue Control and Sponge, it is intended so that Aggro can have a decent chance to win against sponge, while it's the only tool they have against Blue Control - right now, there aren't many decks with powerful action reversals that can help Aggro close games in a Blue vs Aggro matchup thus nerfing OSWM TB will inevitably create more problems down the line, such as sponge becoming potentially too dominant or Blue Control swallowing the meta.

What needs to be done is allow Blue Decks some way to combat OSWM TB without nerfing it directly. Torrie and Trish's This IS What We Came To See! card is one of the best ways to deal with OSWM TB. Right now, the angry mob calling for OSWM TB to get hit by the nerf bat is, imo, a kneejerk reaction. Either you learn to play around OSWM TB or you build a better Blue Control deck.

BUT there's also a need for the development/playtest team to allow superstars to have special ways to circumvent OSWM TB, in this case, Cornette, when they're designed around action cards.